[Conquest! - (working title)] Power 19 exercise

[talesien]

I'm interested in the PC vs PC conflict issue.

Cool...I'll try to answer your questions:)

Why would it be better to have the GM roll instead of the Character-Players?
In either case the effect is determined by the actual fall of the dice, so i cannot see how there is any possibility of cheating.

Since the game only involves d6, there is always the possibility of an accusation of the dreaded "drop" roll, where the die isn't really rolled, merely dropped. That is why in a PC vs. PC combat, I would reccomend that the GM roll. Of course, in tournament ro module play, PC's will have to roll.

As for the intent of PvP conflict - what kinds of conflicts do you see occuring between the player's characters?

Including anything like a "struggle for leadership" when a tough group decision comes up before the group?

I think that the main PvP conflicts will come in tournament play, or single goal resolution play. However, situations where there is a struggle for leadership would simply come down to combat. Fight until one PC yields or dies.

And that sliding card mechanic sounds awesome - but how exactly would half-powers work? Are they then always numerical?
Glad you like the mechanic. I was very excited when I came up with it. I think that it truly reflects injury and healing. As far as "half powers", all the cards are numerical in value. If an ability gives you a +3 to attack rolls, then if it was half covered, you would get half of that, rounded DOWN. So, that ability would become +1 to all attack rolls.

Hope that makes sense!

Gary

[StefanDirkLahr]

Ah! Now, i know what you mean - the "dreaded drop roll" indeed.
That's usually covered under the "don't be a dick rule", but as you're going for a strong PvP tournament mode you might want to try something like a Yatzee Cup for "fair" die rolling - any mug would do. It just doesn't seem right for the GM to roll *your* dice for you, you know? ;)

What kind of situations do you expect PvP fights to occur in, during normal play?

Off hand, i can imagine the old "arena free-for-all" scenario, which only pits the PCs against one another physically, not intentionally, as being easy to handle.

I think i missed the entry on tournament mode - i take it it is player group vs player group, with no GM, much like a typical wargame?

Sliding Cards:

I think i understand this. You have a series of 'ability cards', arranged in order of "damage thresholds", with two thresholds per ability. When the first threshold is equalled the ability is impaired by ~half, and then negated on the second.
I like the visual appeal of it. You're using some sort of laminated/plastic slider thingy, or something like 3x5 cards?

What sets the order of the abilities initially? (It seems to be the combination of race & class, but i'm not seeing it.)

[talesien]

What kind of situations do you expect PvP fights to occur in, during normal play?

I don't really expect them at all in a GM run game. Unless that is a decision that one of the player's makes for their PC. In a tournament mode game, the players must follow along a moduled adventure (prepacked, prescripted, but variable by shuffling). There is an endgame in mind, like "Find the treasure" or Bel the last man standing. This will add to alot of strategy. You must cooperate with the other PC's, yet at some point you must be selfish....When to make that turn? Your call.... :)

I like the visual appeal of it. You're using some sort of laminated/plastic slider thingy, or something like 3x5 cards?

The sdetup is very easy. Each player has a Player Mat. The player mat is a rigid piece, roughly 12" high and 20" long. The mat's are race specific. For example, a Human has 6 card slots in his mat (that he can insert cards in). The slots are fixed (i.e., you can't put an ability card in the left hand slot, etc.) The top row goes as follows, from left to right - Base Race Attributes, Left Hand, Right Hand. The bottom row is as follows - Attribute Modifier (Class Card), Ability 1, Ability 2.

The sliders are on the top and bottom and slide right to left. Picture a handle standing up from the mat, and notches along the bottom and top corresponding with the halfeay points on each card. As you take damage you move the handle into the appropriate slot. There is a red transperant plastic attached to the handle and it actually slides with it and covers the cards as it slides. Use th ebottom slider first, and the top slider second. If all your cards get totally covered before you get healed you die.

Gary

[StefanDirkLahr]

Ok, so tournament play uses a module + "deck" to generate challenge and scene. (This sounds like what i intend to do for my Tarot game, only more complex and varied.)

Thanks for describing the board, i think i see how it works now.

Kind of reminds me of this World of Warcraft boardgame, except that your slider idea allows the character's abilities to be reduced incrementally, rather than all at once.

So you lose the use of your special abilities first, then your class, then your equipment, and finally your race. Makes sense.

Can you gain new abilities through play? (Is that what you mean when you talk about "hand size"? I'm not clear on that.)

Does the slider also keep track of your hit points for you, or are they too variable between characters?

[contracycle]

I'll take these all together. A combat scenario between 3-4 PC's and one enemy would be handled no differently. For each turn, each PC would roll all three die. It is up to the PC's which character rolls first. Each character can only take one action per turn though. So, if you invert that and end up with one PC against 3-4 NPC's, well, the PC gets one atack per turn, and each of the NPC's get to attack him during that turn. The positioning die is rolled once for each PC. If one PC wanted to fight the other, the GM would roll the positioning die, so that there could be no question of cheating.

This seems to imply something to me.  If I'm reading this right, a situation could develop as follows: two PC's are attacked by a pack of 6 wolves.  PC A rolls, on the positioning die, A (attacker).  PC B rolls D (defender).  Now... seeing as PC A is in attacking mode, they are using the optimum tables to inflict damage and kill the wolves.  All well and good.  But poor old PC B is in a terrible situation, because the optimum decision for every wolf is to attack B, becuase B is compelled to use the defence column.  So in effect, A will be pretty much left alone and B will be torn to shreds.

Is that right?  It may or may not be a problem that it works out this way, but it does seem implied by the system.

[talesien]

Sorry for the long lull guys. I just returned from vacation, and am on the road on yet another business trip. I've got some time to kill tonight here at the hotel and thought I would respond to the latest questions...

Sempiterinty,

Can you gain new abilities through play? (Is that what you mean when you talk about "hand size"? I'm not clear on that.)

In order to answer this, I must first tell you that each card (outside of race cards) has two numbers on the top left of the card. The first number is the Card Point Value or CPV. The second number is the Hand Size Requirement, or HSR. So, if a card has a CPV of 5 and an HSR of 1, you can play it when your PC is at hand size 1, and it counts 5 points toward your total card point limit. You cannot gain abilities through play, per se. You gain the ability to use more cards in your deck. For example, all players start at hand size 1. At HS1, all characters regardless of race have 13 CPV's to spend, and cannot have more than that euqipped to their player mat at any time. In addition, at HS1, a player cannot have any card with an HSR over 1 equipped. A player can have up to 20 cards in his deck at any point of a game, however he can only equip them according to the CPV and HSR rules, as well as the limitations exerted by the race. As your character gains experience your hand size increases.

Does the slider also keep track of your hit points for you, or are they too variable between characters?

The mat has a built in damage counter. For every 5 points of damage taken, you must move your slider to the next notch to the left.

Contracycle,

Your example is a good one, but it fails to take into account on of the basic principles of the mechanic. If PC A rolls and becomes the attacker, all future rolls of the wolves come off their DEFENDER column. So, even though PC B may also have use of his defender column, the wolves are using theirs as well.

Gary

[StefanDirkLahr]

Nifty.

So, your character creation consists of choosing Race, Class, and Deck then? Or is the deck predetermined?

So you choose which cards your character *can have* in the beginning, and advance by *fulfilling your potential* (as dictated by your choosen deck). I like it. It ends up working like DND's pre-planned character classes, but in a more straigtforward manner.

I assume equipment cards are also part of the character deck, instead of being gained in play (as usual)?

[talesien]

So, your character creation consists of choosing Race, Class, and Deck then? Or is the deck predetermined?

Kind of :) The game is packaged in 3 ways. 1) GM Set. This includes dice, terrains, 100 monster/puzzle/challenge cards, instructions, Avatar figurine (Collectible). 2) Player set. You can purchase either the Single race box, or the Total Player Set, which will include all current races. For the TPS, you get the mats for all the races, and all the basic cards. In the single race box, you get the mat for your race and the 100 card base set. This includes race card, class cards, weapons, abilities, spells, etc. These cards (both player and GM) are not collectible, as everyone has the same ones to start with. 3) Booster packs. These are where the collectible cards come into play. There are GM boosters and Player boosters. These include more classes, weapons, abilities, monsters, puzzles, etc. The cards avialable in the boosters are collectible and have different rarities.

The character creation is pretty simple. It's the strategy of building your deck to allow for various situations, and the equipping combinations that really make this a true RPG/Strategy/CCG game all rolled into one.

Gary

[StefanDirkLahr]

Ambitious, but also very appealing.

The different customizable decks (terrain, adversary, character) are very cool, and give the game a nice visual and tactile appeal on the table. I'd expect that to appeal to people, like me, who play games like Warhammer and/or like Zombies! and that WoW boardgame.   

But, shouldn't you be packaging the Figurines with the Player Race boxes? (or boosters)

Switching gears:

So why do you need a GM-player?
After all, you can tie the Challenge cards & Map tiles together to generate adversity for the players, much like the WoW game does with its pre-made board & Quest cards. If you reward them for challenging themselves, the players should be able to use those tools (with some structuring rules) to orchestrate something of a decent escalating level of conflict even though they're playing against themselves, no?

More importantly, How does the game end? Do you have a "boss monster" card or other sort of final obstacle in the Challenge deck to provide a solid climax?

[talesien]

But, shouldn't you be packaging the Figurines with the Player Race boxes? (or boosters)

Glad you caught that. It was a typo on my part. The figurines will be in the PLAYER boxes, not the GM boxes. As far as their collectibility, there will be somewhere between 5 and 10 different figurines for each race. Some will be rarer than others, and each will come in two versions, a generic, and a colored. The colored are more rare.

So why do you need a GM-player?

You don't in Tournament or module play. You can pick up a premade adventure pack which will include all the cards necessary for an adventure (you do have to already have terrains though...Remember, the terrains are 3d representations). You simply shuffle the monster cards and place them under the terrains according to the adventure template, and then do the same with the puzzles, etc. The "end game" will depend on the module. Sometimes it will be to find the treasure and get it before the other players can. Sometimes it will be to finish as the last man standing. Sometimes it will be to deal the killing blow to a very powerful enemy. The biggest strategy key is that unless you run the advenuture module in "solo" mode (removing certain cards from the game), you can't get to the end without helping each other at least part of the way.

The GM mode is for traditional RPG'ers who want to write, script, or otherwise run a game in the traditional D&D sense of the word. The world this game is based in is RIPE with amazing story possibilities and will be an absolute joy for storyline gamers to play, and hard core GM's to write for.

We envision the game being something that 6-10 people and a GM can run a continuous campaign off for for weeks or months.

We also envision the "tournament" mode being very successful, and we (hope...pray...beg..plead) that it will eventually be mentioned right up there with MtG in the competative world of game play. I realize that is ambitious, but if you don't know your goals, how do you ever get to them?

Gary