[TSoY] Middle Earth?

[Frank T]

I really like the World of Near, and would like to play TSoY in it. Unfortunately, I've got a bunch of players that really hate "learning" a new setting. Since all of them know the LotR novels or at least the movies, it seems more sensible to start from there. We did much the same to the Star Wars Universe. Never knew all the geeky details, but used the original movies (are there any others?) as a starting point from which to develop the setting our own way.

Has anyone done this before? Any ideas on racial and cultural Abilities, Secrets and Keys? Reading recommendations for just a little background on Middle Earth?

- Frank

[Clinton R. Nixon]

I really like the World of Near, and would like to play TSoY in it. Unfortunately, I've got a bunch of players that really hate "learning" a new setting. Since all of them know the LotR novels or at least the movies, it seems more sensible to start from there. We did much the same to the Star Wars Universe. Never knew all the geeky details, but used the original movies (are there any others?) as a starting point from which to develop the setting our own way.

Has anyone done this before? Any ideas on racial and cultural Abilities, Secrets and Keys? Reading recommendations for just a little background on Middle Earth?

Frank,

I'm not so certain the system's a good match for the setting.  (I have my own theory that not much is a good match for that setting - it's not all that role-playing-friendly.)

Can you use their cultural touchstone of LotR as a jumping off point? There's no "learning" the World of Near - it's sketched broadly enough that anything can be inserted into it. You could pick a part of Maldor and say "it looks like Osgilath after the orcs and Nazgul attacked" and kind of drive characters from one setting to another. Does that make any sense?

In my current game, we've taken a lot from the "Lone Wolf and Cub" comics, but it's ended up being an island in the ocean of Near, tying things back together.

[James_Nostack]

Frank, probably the best spot for a "little bit" of Middle Earth history is the Internet, or maybe some of the appendices in the back of "Return of the King."

I agree with Clinton that the Shadow of Yesterday as written may not be the best match for that setting.  The Shadow of Yesterday emphasizes full of love triangles, grungy-ness, exotic cultures, and humor.  These aren't really present in Tolkien.

Are they familiar with Conan, and those kinds of stories?  Or some of the fantasy movies from the 1980's, like Labyrinth or The Dark Crystal?  The tone is a lot closer.

You actually don't need much of a setting to run the Shadow of Yesterday.  Have somebody draw a map; figure out where some cultures are located; then say, "Okay, pick a spot on the map.  We're adventuring (here)!  It's a (decadent city/big scary forest/desert oasis)."  And then people can improvise details.

[Eero Tuovinen]

Clinton's right about the Middle Earth not being easy. Here's how I did it with Dust Devils:
- Scrounge the house for all pertinent sourcebooks. Distribute something to everybody. Make it absolutely clear that the books are the foremost setting authority, should we need to check something. Tolkien trumps the editors, which trump David Day. Encourage reading pertinent stuff aloud when appropriate.
- Let the players pick their characters from LotR. First choice to the quickest.
- Commence chargen. Make sure to align the system with as many themes as you can on the fly, but don't dwell on "getting it right".
- Play. Start from somewhere appropriate in the book and see what happens next. Accept that your Middle Earth will wary. Riff off the material and understand that the rules of the game you're playing have more to do with the ultimate result than Middle Earth.
I got good results from the above, but they weren't so much Middle Earth results than inspired by it. Which is fine, because, frankly, you're unlikely to have a play group well versed in the meaning of Tolkien's writings, so trying to coordinate a 100% faithful ME is like herding blind cats. This method also requires absolute willingness to make the setting your own, which some lack.

OK, assuming you're dead-set on playing in ME in the old style, with no-name adventurers at some point before/after the ring war, some TSOY-oriented ideas follow. I've been thinking about Glorantha/ME/other settings a lot lately on account of having to sell the game to Finns, who like variants.
- Nobility is an ability. It's a factor of birth, nature and divine prominence. Used like Pray from TSOY. It's a species ability for humans, specifically.
- Elves should have the secret of Polymath from Near, tied to ability "Long life", functionally like "Past lives". Also, "Key of Sadness" or something, for angst. A mandatory secret of "First Born", encapsulating various minor effects from immortality to beauty, is appropriate if the players like that kind of thing. Other elf-stuff should be worked out with players, as people have wildly divergent ideas about ME elf magic. One IMO faithful possibility is an "Elf-craft" skill which can be used for roll-over bonuses on any craft skills, and for making magical items via appropriate secrets.
- Dwarves need a key of greed, perhaps mandatory. Otherwise a couple of species abilities (Stonework, metalwork, etc.) suffices, with player-created crafting secrets tied to the abilities, if necessary. Secret of Mithril equipment may or may not be dwarf-specific, depending on the play group.
- Hobbits have the mandatory secret of stealth (the "bonus die to ability check" type should work well). A species key of good life, or perhaps a couple similar ones, to represent their bourgeois inclinations. Not that I expect hobbits to make an appearance outside Shire.
- Magic items are a big deal, so I recommend something with more punch than Secret of Imbuement. Many ways to do it.
- Psychology is important, so I recommend a range of stuff like "Dire Rhetoric" abilities and "Secret of Despair", "Secret of Corruption" type stuff for the baddies. The idea is to test abilities like Courage, Resist (the passive thing) and Nobility, from above, against the mind-numbing fear caused by the dark powers. Nobility in LotR is pretty much a stand-in for faith, so most characters probably won't have "priestly" abilities to combat dark magics with.

Hey, Secret of Despair is kinda cool: roll <appropriate ability> to imbue despair in your target. On success he immediately spends an advance for the Key of Despair (or his next advance, if he has none). Combine with the ability Dire Rhetoric (heh, Boromir had this one in our Dust Devils take) to cause it by simply talking...

Anyway, the way to do a full-body conversion of TSOY is pretty much to improvise the abilities, secrets and keys with the play group in attendance. The goal is to capture your common points of interest in the mechanics this way, so the mechanics start resembling the target setting.

[Valamir]

I'm not really following the "TSOY doesn't do Middle Earth well" arguements.  I mean maybe if you're trying to use it to actually recreate the War of the Ring and have the players play characters maybe...but beyond that...  I mean, Middle Earth is pretty much just a bog standard fantasy setting (because, of course, it set the standard)...so it should work just as well as any other fantasy setting.

I mean just take your region...say Rohan...and set up some culture skills and keys and play:  Secret of the Horse Lord, Key of Kinship Pride, and such like that, and just play.  Middle Earth just becomes setting background like any other source book...I'm not really seeing the hang-up.

[James_Nostack]

Hi Ralph! 

You're right that Shadow of Yesterday could do Lord of the Rings, but so could Dungeons & Dragons, or any other fantasy game.  To my mind, the question isn't "Can it be done?" but rather, "Can it be done well?"  That is, does the experience of playing the Shadow of Yesterday have the same feel as Tolkien's works?  I think it doesn't.  Tolkien is really cool, and "pumpkin fantasy" is really cool, but they're not the same. 

I think this depends on Frank's goals.  If his players genuinely want to try out the system for its own sake, and simply want to use Middle Earth to avoid clogging their brains with new details about a setting, it should work okay.  If his players want a Middle Earth game, though, they'll probably have to fight the slightly silly/cute/scary undercurrent inherent in the design.

Either way, whipping up Secrets and Keys beforehand, while not impossible, is kind of a pain.  I suggest having players come up with concepts, and then making some Secrets and Keys ad hoc, since this could be a brief engagement.

[Frank T]

Thanks everybody for your comments. I was in fact thinking about something just like Ralph describes. Fortunately, none of us are Tolkien geeks, so our knowledge of Middle Earth is pretty rough. We'd just pick some spot and make up some characters, and develop setting details by ourselves, without much attention to what the Silmarillion (is it spelled that way?) might have to say on the subject.

I would pick the period just prior to The Fellowship. Sauron is already assembling his forces in Mordor, but the war is not yet begun. Has Moria already fallen? Let's find out. Maybe the characters will even get to be there when it happens.

The mood of such a game would probably be more of a TSoY mood than an LotR mood. Don't bother, that'll be fine with us.