Henbane: role‐playinge the detestable wickednesse of wytchcrafte

[Chad]

Gosh, both those ideas seem rather good.

What I like about your idea Mark is that the players can tell, if they have the right cards in their hand. What worries me though, is what if the witches start doing some truly obvious witch stuff in front of the goodly. If the GF has no Kings or Queens, does he pretend that they don't notice if the witches are conjuring hellfire in the town square? Have I understood correctly?

And I like the whole deductive player suspicion thing with yours Ivan. That could be a lot of fun - it has that 'host a murder' mystery element, because one or more players will know which cards are in the discovery hand. But the problem is similar, what if the players engage in some obvious witchy stuff - but you don't have the right towns person in the discovery hand or in the scene?

An option I have been thinking about is a variation of Marks idea: If the conflict is escalated to Craft (pentacles) or Hand (swords), or if the PC's do something overtly suspicious, the GF draws a card (possibly more depending of the seriousness of the situation)- if its a king or queen the agenda becomes "are the witches discovered?". But, Ivan's secret discovery cards, do seem to add a bit of spice to things - which makes me wonder if there isn't a clever way to combine the two...

Cheers,
Chad

[Mark D. Eddy]

Chad,

Well, I was assuming that if the witches weren't careful then the consequences mechanic would kick in, even if there wasn't a required discovery conflict. One of the consequences listed is, "The Sherriff of Willowsbridge finds Jarmara suspect. +1," which I wouldn't change. That's the roleplaying part of the game.

Another way to tweak it is to use the trumps rather than face cards in your version of the escalation draw, indicating that Wyrd Shitte is happening -- It could be something good, it could be something bad, they'll just have to push the button to find out.

Also remember that the GF or players can add people to the narration if they have narrating rights. Which brings up something else. Progress on their agenda goes to the winner of the round (trick), but "the highest card is also leads the story telling." This means that you could have someone deliberately play "off-suit" to gain narration rights in spite of the fact that that means they don't get to make progress towards their goal. Now, I see this as a feature rather than a bug (other than the stray "is" in the text), but I want to make sure that you intended it that way.

Again, I like the idea as it stands, but I want to make sure you know that's what the text is saying.

[Chad]

Ah, OK I see it now. To be honest, it was a silly oversight. I didn't take the trumps into account - assuming that the highest card would always be winner, and therefor have narration.
No matter - happy accident! And it really makes the discovery mechanic, much more dynamic. Because as you say, it can go either, based on who is narrating. Another nice element is that your method's threat level scales in proportion to the GF hand. Which makes total sense because he would be drawing more cards based on the dramatic potential of the scene - so its built in. And your right about the consequence mechanic kicking in - so feedback is immediate.

Tres cool.

[ivan23]

As to "not having the proper person on the scene ..."

Any witchfynder worth his salt is going to be more than capable of hiding in bushes, skulking nearby, etc etc. I had seen this as a "sudden reveal," in which once the witches escalate (say) to Craft, the GF plays a card and narrates a dark figure detaching itself from the shadows of the wood to denounce them for their wyckeddnesse, or a child's gasp at the edge of hearing followed by the sound of rapidly retreating footsteps.

It's my opinion that if you do put in a mechanical discovery option, you ought to strip out the roleplaying option; which means that yeah, there's a chance the witches could be throwing around bolts of hellfire under Reverend Ezekiel's nose and he just doesn't see it. What if, as suggested by your Escalation Draw, the GF draws an extra number of cards equal to the level of escalation? So when they use Wits, the GF gets one extra card, Guile 2, Craft 3, Hand 4. That mechanically ramps up the odds of being discovered every time the witches do any "Wyrd Shitte," which is now officially my favorite chapter heading or band name ever, Mark.

I like the idea of using Trumps in this draw as well.

[chris_moore]

A question that I may have missed in the text:

Let's say I put down a 5 of disks, and a 3 of swords.  If disks is trump, do these cards beat, for example, a six of disks?

Sorry if I missed something,

Chris

[Chad]

That's  right, Chris. The cards stack in value.  If a trump is one of the cards played during the round the, native conflict card rule kicks in - effectively making your 5 of discs an 8 of discs because of the + 3 of swords.

Cheers,
Chad

[Chad]

Ivan,

I see your point about the 'sudden reveal' dynamic - makes perfect sense to me. Even if the witchfynder, just happened to stumble across the business, or whatever. One thing about the draw mechanic that attracts me too (even though Marks is more integrated) is that it can be triggered during Wit and Gall conflicts in the same way as with Craft and Hand. Also it has more immediate sense of anxiety when its activated, where the face card has more of a surprise element - only the GF knows. However if a face card is used for the discovery signifier, then, knowing that the queen of pentacles is in a players hand the coven can conjure the Dark Stranger himself right in front of Reverend Ezekiel - knowing full well that they wont be discovered. I think trumps would be a lot riskier, in a good way...

[ivan23]

Totally agree. I'd go with the Trumps.

[Mark D. Eddy]

So, what I'm reading as the new mechanic (and correct me if I'm wrong) is roughly as follows:

Any time a Dramatic encounter occurs, the GF pulls a discovery card from the trumps deck (the same deck that is used for Beseeching Intervention &c.). If the conflict escalates, the GF pulls another card for each level of escalation.

At a dramatically appropriate time, and only when the GF has narrating rights, the GF reveals a personality trump as a person who has discovered the Witches' secrets. The Personality Trumps are The Fool, The Magician, The High Priestess,  The Emperor, The Empress, The  Heirophant, The Hermit, and The Hanged Man.

Now, that's eight out of twenty-two cards. I'd suggest that it should be draw one card for craft and two for hand, just to be vaguely fair to the players. I'd also note that the trumps are great for choosing consequences if there isn't clarity about what the consequence of the Dramatic encounter should be.

[Chad]

Oh! no, that's not what I meant with trumps. I meant trumps in the sense that its used in whist - being any suit that beats (trumps) all other cards. So during a Craft conflict the trumps would be pentacles, and during a hand conflict the trumps would be the swords cards. So the if players have a whole bunch of pentacles in their hands they know the odds are less of a 'trumping' or winning native conflict card being drawn in the discovery draw - leading to 'wyrd shitte' (I am using that term in the text Mark. Its really good). With the face card option - if they have it in hand they know with 100% certainty that they can go undiscovered. See what I mean?

Actually, knowing they can go undiscovered, with certainty, could be a lot of fun - and might suit the games tone really well. I worry that the players might come across the face cards early on in the game and hold on to them, safe in the knowledge that can wreak havoc without discovery.

I think the best way to find out is during play. So, methinks I shall play-test both ways this coming weekend to see which one is the most enjoyable!

[Mark D. Eddy]

Cool. Thanks for clearing that up. Now I just need to see if I can get this played.

[Chad]

OK, the new version of the Henbane rules are up. It includes the provisional discovery mechanic. The way Arts work have been altered greatly - the stacking rule was creating havoc. Too much handling time and other serious complications. The art now grants a draw instead of a stacking card play.

Cheers,
Chad