[Avalanche] - Redefining publishing of content

[pells]

I'm still in preparation of my teaser, which I should be able to present in about two weeks. While preparing the related post, I came across this interesting conversation in rpgtalk. I'm not quite sure it's that much related to what I'm about to say, but this was food for thougth. Anyway, as I was writing posts for my teaser, I came to an idea, which I don't want to debate there. It's about how setting/plot are sold today. As always, I'm not talking about mechanics, only content.

What is offered
I believe the main market tends to offer three different products related to content (i.e. setting/plot).
Setting : mostly heavy, too heavy for me, at least. Too much details I can come up with. Absence of immediate stakes. Kinda written out of time.
Plots : mostly linear, all about the PCs. Boring to read.
Novels : taken part in the setting. Presenting main characters. Not related to teh PCs. Fun to read, very inspiring.
Novels can be written before or after the setting, this is not really important for that matter.

My problem with this model is that I believe those three products are not meant for the rpg. Settings are too heavy, too informative. Plots are too linear. Books present interesting plots, but you can't easily use them for your game. People might read the novels, but might not easily take the steps toward playing.
Bottom is : you've got three different trades as a content provider.
Is my analysis right ?

What I'm offering
Well, I know it's not easy to discuss a product which you haven't seen. And that's the main problem with Avalanche today. That said, here's my idea.
You throw away this model. Instead of selling three different products, you sell only one, fullfilling the three aspects. You provide a setting with immediate stakes, written for a plot. The plots are the immediate stakes. And all these in a novel style, meaning fun to read. One of my hope is that people who would come across this "novel" and enjoyed it might easily take the steps into playing.
I believe this model is more meant for the rpg, having the advantages, but not the disavantages of the previous model. But, I also guess this has some publishing issues. You don't sell this product as the others. Obviously, you sell less books, as you only have one product instead of three.
Is this model a real marketing difference from the "regular" content publisher ?
Does it seems more appropriate to the rpg ?

I still got the feeling I'm only joggling with this idea and not mastering it yet. See anything else ?

[Clay]

You used a lot of hand waving in your description, and I thought I saw a spherical cow in there somewhere too.  We need to see something concrete before we can provide much information.

To be frank though, it sounds a little like you're combining a piano, a coffee maker and a vacume cleaner into one great big device.  I don't want my game materials to be like a novel, because somebody else has already written that story for me.  I certainly don't want to pretend to be part of that storyline now, because everything is already set in stone.  I can do exactly nothing to affect the story line, which makes any attempt to create a meaningful character a bit like tilting at windmills.

I'm willing to be surprised by the high quality and play value of your product, but I'll have to see something concrete, and based on what I've heard so far I wouldn't be willing to shell out $40 on the chance that my assumptions are wrong.

[pells]

Clay, bear with me just a moment, please (I'm talking about charitable reading here).

I know that what I'm doing is not typical to the forge. But, still, would you agree about my analysis on content publishing ? I mean, there are people out there who pubilsh content and others who buy it, right ? For most forgists, I think, this model is no good. But, instead of thrying to replace it, they tend to throw away all kind of heavy setting and plots, and think of novels as complete different products.

That said, in what I'm doing, I don't feel the need to publish novels set in my setting, because my product is, somehow but not, a novel. I also don't feel the need to publish a 700 pages hard cover setting book, because, for me, setting must present immediate stakes. And as for plots, well, there are present for the setting. The three typical products are interrelated, merging into a single one. And I think that's a big difference.

I don't want my game materials to be like a novel, because somebody else has already written that story for me.  I certainly don't want to pretend to be part of that storyline now, because everything is already set in stone.  I can do exactly nothing to affect the story line, which makes any attempt to create a meaningful character a bit like tilting at windmills.

I think those things can be address to the regular model, not mine in particular.

I'm willing to be surprised by the high quality and play value of your product, but I'll have to see something concrete, and based on what I've heard so far I wouldn't be willing to shell out $40 on the chance that my assumptions are wrong.

I hope you will be surprised !!! That said, I had to wait for my translation, and now, for the illustrations. My faut, I admit it. But, it's coming...

[Clay]

I'm reading it as a novel with an RPG system attached. Maybe that isn't what you mean, but that's what I'm hearing.  I'm also noting that your language is a little dense and not explicit enough.  It comes off as marketing speak, a very high level overview that you might present to investors or distributors.  I'm reminded a lot of the stuff we used to hear back during the glorious dot com days.

What I would need to convince me, at the very least, is the specification you would give to a content provider, i.e. somebody who was writing this product for you (even if that is yourself).  What does your outline look like, both at a high level for the entire product, and at a low level for a chapter (a meaty chapter, not a fluff introductory chapter)?

Show me something real that I can believe in. Show me a sample of what I would get for my money, so I can see why this is so much better than the traditional model for an RPG/Novel/Movie/CCG/Video Game.

As for your argument that the model of publisher selling to consumer is not good, I don't think you'll find a lot of support for that here, or much of anywhere in a capitalist society.  That's just basic capitalism: people create things and sell them for money.  Everybody walks away more or less happy. Different people want to buy different things, so there's room for a lot of different types of producers.  You claim to be a different type of producer than everybody else, with a type of product that nobody has seen before.  Great.  Show us the product, and sell us on specifics of why it's so great.

Don't waste our time with a lot of hot air.

[pells]

Clay, that's fair enough...

I'm reading it as a novel with an RPG system attached. Maybe that isn't what you mean, but that's what I'm hearing.

It's more than a novel. But I think you have to see it to fully understand it.

What I would need to convince me, at the very least, is the specification you would give to a content provider, i.e. somebody who was writing this product for you (even if that is yourself).

The overall design is almost all there, here on the forge. As for exact specifications, they might be hard to provide. I'm doing some editing job as I do have another writer working with me. I believe it is more something of a craft than specifications. But seeing it should help.

Show me something real that I can believe in. Show me a sample of what I would get for my money, so I can see why this is so much better than the traditional model for an RPG/Novel/Movie/CCG/Video Game.

That's honest and I'll do it. My teaser should be ready in about two to three weeks. You will get a real sample, a complete subplot over a season. You'll be able to really see what you'll get for your money and get a general feeling over the product.

As for your argument that the model of publisher selling to consumer is not good, I don't think you'll find a lot of support for that here, or much of anywhere in a capitalist society.

Maybe you get me wrong on this. Bottom line for me, for the purpose of this thread, is that I won't be able to separate my single product into the three typical ones. My question is what does it imply ?
For regular content provider, buyer can separate what they want. Maybe they just want to buy the setting (and create their plots), or just buy the plots (and integrate them into their home made setting) or just buy the novels.
In what I'm doing it is not possible. You get the whole package or you get nothing.

That said, here's what I'm proposing. I'll put this thread 'on hold', until I've completed and released my teaser. A link will be present in the post toward this thread to discuss this specific matter.
And yes, this is all my fault. I've been talking about this project for months and I've shown nothing yet. Sorry for that.

[Jake Richmond]

Part of Sebastiens problem with the teaser is I havent turned in all the art for it yet. He's waiting on me. Sorry, man.


I think theres definetly a market for what Sebastien is doing here, but as he said, it's not the same kind of thing that you might expect in a Forge game, and I think its kinda the opposite of what many of us persue when we make games. Which dosent mean its bad, just that its different, right? I dont see it as a novel so much as a setting with a detailed series of events. In my D&D days I would have loved this; a rich world to expolre with lots of cool stuff happening. Whether the players take part in these events is up to them, but the product provides a rich world and background to play against. And if thats something you want then its pretty cool.

Anyway, I'm real curious to see how it turns out as well.