[Perfect -working title] Dystopic gaming, attributes as a hinderance.

[joepub]

Maybe.
One per scene is too free ended, but maybe some time frame usage.

I think that the reason I suggested that after Restoring once, it became null was this:
It turns it into a constant battle to re-confirm the things you cling to.


The idea is also this...
If you have An Image... and you use Picture A to restore it....

Picture A becomes part of The Image.
Which means if the Inspectors Reduce that Image, they are taking the Picture down with it.


Does that make sense?


Also... if players want to search out pictures...
prove to themselves that they aren't the only sane ones left...
Maybe that turns into a real crux of gameplay.

Now, Dave, someone suggested to me that maybe Pictures have different Impact Levels.
Without having a clear concept what Impact Levels would look like or do, I definately like this idea.

Partially because it adds to the depth of the whole Images/Pictures thing...
And partly because saying "I have a Level two picture of a Ferris Wheel" just sounds bitchin'.


So, does this line up with what you would like to see Images be?
Because, having them refresh along a timeline seems superficial to what they are supposed to symbolically represent.
a restoration of faith.


So, here are my suggestions... which do you guys dig?
1.) Pictures can be used to Restore once, then are null

2.) Pictures have an Impact Level, which is amount of "Restore charges" it has. Every restore depletes this number by 1. (Also, maybe by completely draining a Picture, that has more than 1 remaining charge... can bring back an eradicated Image, not just a Reduced one.)

3.) Pictures have an Impact Level... and if you want to Restore an image, you have to make a test... If your dice is less than the Picture Impact Level, the picture becomes mechanically null in the process of restoring.

4.) any other suggestions?

[dindenver]

Hi!
  Sure, I think different pictures will have different effects. Not only that, but that value should change from character to character. A picture of my mother will be meaninless to you, but can restore almost my entire world...
  I think a picture of some non-descript family having a picnic in a park should be only available once, but a cherished picture never really loses that burning memory it evokes.
  As for if once a scene is too often or not, think about what a scene is?
  In my mind a scene is a conflict and in the context of this game, the stakes are going to be:
Humanity
Image
Status
Captivity
  Based on this, it seems like if, on average, you had an equal chance to swing it the other way per scene, you should be fine. So, I guess, I am saying you should be able  tol roll once per scene, with an odds of maybe 10 to 30% Maybe those odds are based on the level of the Image you are trying to restore or ot the Picture used...

[joepub]

Not only that, but that value should change from character to character. A picture of my mother will be meaninless to you, but can restore almost my entire world...

Oh for sure. I think that maybe Picture Impact is evaluated based on how close it draws to the original Image.

Let's say the image is your mother's smile, and this is how pictures are rated against it:
Level 1 - elements of the image exist in the picture (a picture of a family)
Level 2 - the picture depicts the image (a picture of a mother working)
Level 3 - the picture depicts the image, and the tone and feel of the moment is recreated for you (a picture of a mother smiling, and looking genuinely happy)
Level 4 - it is a picture of the exact image (A picture of YOUR mother).

And...
I think that over time that Level 4 can even become meaningless...
but it'd take more time, more restorations... more something.

you dig?

In my mind a scene is a conflict and in the context of this game, the stakes are going to be:
Humanity
Image
Status
Captivity

In my mind, any scene presents the following stakes:
-Status
-Captivity
........ possibly Humanity.

Only some scenarios, really only Interrogation scenes, put Images at stake.
Unless you choose to put them at stake yourself, by discussing htem with people... but that's social suicide.


So....
my version of scene is different than yours.
I'd rather go with one of the options I presented (1, 2, or 3) than go with time refreshing Pictures.

[TroyLovesRPG]

The image/picture thought seems very mechanical and puts too much emphasis on photographs. Characters are limited in what they do because of conditioning, drugs, propaganda, etc. and it takes the image to overcome that.

The desire to venture outside of my community to seek out an old building requires an image. Conjuring that image requires objects that represent (in some part) the adequate focus, clarity and depth. A miniature of a landmark is the focus of building. An old atlas is the clarity of travel. A photo of a motorcycle is the depth (or effect) of far in that image. The image is complete, the used property of that object is marked out and the action of escaping the city (even just for that night) is complete. When I return I know what I've done, but have lost the desire to do it again...until I find objects that reinforce the image. Had I used a photo of a tricycle, I may have only walked one block outside my designated community, felt like a scared child and returned.

Objects (your pictures) have three properties: focus, clarity and depth. Focus is exactly what the object is (could be many different things at the same time.) Clarity is what it represents. Depth describes relative positioning of that object. These are single words describing the object in a very simple fashion. The miniature could have building/government/above. The atlas is paper/travel/far. The photo of the motorcycle is vehicle/move/far. Now the miniature is left with government/above, the atlas has only paper/far and the photo retains vehicle/move. I could have taken far from the atlas, but I choose to spread out the image. Objects have simple facts and together they form images. A person may have a toy top, rabbit's foot, picture of a woman, paper clip and a crucifix. The combination of those objects can conjure many different images, therefore reinforcing certain desires, memories or actions.

Characters receive objects during their lives and at that time must be defined. The GM describes the object and then assigns one property to it. The player holding the object defines one more property and then chooses another player to define the last one. This allows the GM to manipulate images subtly, have the character feel connected to the object and the other players can covet the objects. Also, the same object will have different meanings for different people. Most likely the players will choose words that will benefit their cause and strengthen their images.

Its possible that objects are taboo and can never be bought or given--they only may be found, lost, stolen or destroyed. That would keep envy, risk, theft, spite and destruction in the mix.

Time for a movie.

Troy

[joepub]

...
...
...

Cool.

I think that images were at first a really simple thing.
And then I added in pictures (which, by the way, weren't limited to pictures really... any physical objects.)

And now what your saying is brilliant, and I'm going to try to work it in.
I really like the concept....
and I feel like I want it to roll around in my head for a day or two, and see if I can add or tweak it at all...

but definately cool.
And I definately love the system.

[Chad]

Hiya,

Oh yeah, I like what I am hearing Troy. This configuring 'objects' mechanic sounds like power semiotic mojo. I also like your level structure Joe, its simple and intuitive. There might be way of combining the two. Say you have a colour picture of a smile + an object which belonged to your mother, lets say an article of clothing. That kind of thing.

C

[joepub]

Okay guys.


I'm opening a new thread for Images/Objects.


I think I'd like to consider this thread closed from now on,
because this was really an idea generating thread....

And now that we have the ideas, I'd like to work on refining those ideas.
So, colour is being addressed in a different thread...
the image/object mechanics are going to be addressed in a different thread...
and freedoms/certifications will be addressed in a different thread.

This is just to make sure I don't feel like we're jumping back and forth unnecessarily.

So... consider this thread closed for the moment being.