[Noir] Gameplay example to talk about mechanics (long)

[Caesar_X]

I read a good Forge post recently that said a good way to start a game design was to imagine a game session and actually write it out. 

http://www.indie-rpgs.com/forum/index.php?topic=1896.0

So I went ahead and did so, with several references to as-yet undefined game mechanics such as Flashbacks, Intimacy Points and Plot Points.  It's pretty long, but I was trying to channel the feeling that my Noir game was going to have (think dark noir like The Maltese Falcon).  If this isn't a good way to elicit feedback, please let me know and I'll find a better way:)

Thoughts?
Chris

==
1937, New Jersey

Johnnie: I walk into the bar, what do I see?

GM: There is a good crowd tonight listening to the jazz group who is on stage cruising through an up tempo song.  Sarah is at the bar, smoking a cigarette and talking to the bartender.  She is dressed to kill in a long black sleeveless dress and high heels.  She doesn't seem to notice you enter.

Johnnie: Is there anyone at the bar next to her?

GM: Yeah, she seems to be attracting the attention of a couple guys who are sitting around her.

Johnnie: Crap, how do I separate her?  I walk up to her and say, "Hey doll face, let's loose these guys and have a quiet drink."

Sarah: I want to spend a Plot Point to narrate the action here.

GM: Cool.

Sarah: I wave these losers off and turn around to contemplate Johnnie as I blow smoke out of the side of my mouth.  The jazz band slows down into a ballad and I slip off my bar stool, taking Johnnie by the hand onto the dance floor.

Johnnie: Hehe, you don't waste time.

Sarah: Quiet you, I'm not done yet.  I drape my arms around his neck and move to the music.  I give Johnnie one of my Intimacy Points to up the relationship.  "Johnnie, I'm glad you've come.  I never thought I would see you again."

Johnnie: Can I use a Plot Point and get in a flashback when you're done?

Sarah: Sure, I've set the scene.  Go ahead.

Johnnie: Fade out.  It's three years ago and Johnnie and Sarah are in a muggy hotel room.  She is lying in bed covered only by sheets and Johnnie is sitting on the bed with his clothes on.  Johnnie is holding her arm and looking at the tracks in her vein.  Sarah has her head in the pillow, silently weeping.  "Damn it Sarah...you've made such a mess of things..."  Fade in.

GM: Wow, that's harsh.

Sarah: Yeah, the truth hurts I guess.  "When you saw what a mess I made of things, I thought I lost you for good."  I look up at his eyes.

Johnnie: "Yeah, well something's come up.  I got a job I gotta do."

Sarah: "You and your job, that's all there ever was."

Johnnie: I squeeze her shoulders.  "I'm here now."

Sarah: I look down at his feet.  "Yeah, you are.  What do you need?"

Johnnie: "Tony Sims.  Where can I find him?"

Sarah: I stop dancing.

Johnnie: "Don't look so surprised doll.  People are watching."

Sarah: I start dancing again, still a little shocked. "What makes you think I know where to find him?"

Johnnie: "I'm not naïve enough to think I'm the only notch in your belt.  I need to find Tony and now.  And I need you to help me."

Sarah: "And us?  What about us?"

Johnnie: "First Tony.  Three years is a long time, so let's give it a chance to sink in."

GM: Nice!  Johnnie, you get a Plot Point for moving the scene along and creating a complication between the two of you.

Sarah: Yeah, that was a tough one. I want to make a Contacts roll to see if I can track Tony Sims down.

GM: Okay, it's a Difficult test, but you have a history together which gives you a bonus.  Roll it.

Sarah: <Rolls> Ooh, barely made it!  What happened?

GM: You tracked him as far as the waterfront, but no exact location.

Johnnie: Okay, I'm taking my car down to the waterfront.

Sarah: Wait a minute, buster.  It's my contact.  "I know where to find him.  But I'm coming with you."

Johnnie: Groan.  "Okay, but this could get ugly."

Sarah: "Uglier than it is already?"  I get my coat from the bartender and leave my tab for the suckers at the bar.

GM and Johnnie: <Laughter>

GM: Okay, you arrive at the waterfront well after midnight and the area is deserted.  There is a cold breeze coming in from the water and the fog makes it tough to see.

Sarah: Brrr!!  Glad I wore a heavy coat. 

Johnnie: I get out of the car and motion for Sarah to do the same.  Can I make a perception roll to see if I can find out where Tony is hiding out?

GM: Yeah, go ahead.  Medium Difficulty but -1 because of the fog.

Johnnie: <Rolls> Damn, missed it.

GM: You see a building close to the water with a lit window, but as you start to investigate it you are surprised by a tough guy carrying a bat.  He takes a menacing step towards you. 

Tough: "You're in the wrong place, laddie.  Just get back in your car and get out of here."

Johnnie: Oops.  I want to try and Intimidate him to let us by.

Sarah: Yeah, I'll give him a Helping Die by going along with his story.

GM: Okay, but it's a Difficult test and if you fail he is going to escalate the violence level.

Johnnie: Hmm...my Intimidation isn't that great.  But what the hell.  "Hey buddy, no worries, we're here to see the boss."

Sarah: I smile at the thug.  "You've seen us before, right?"

Johnnie: <Rolls> Arghh...not again!

GM: Oh well, good try.  The heavy takes a step towards Johnnie and swings the bat at his head.

Johnnie: I try and evade the blow and catch him when he's off balance.

GM: Okay, so it's a Speed vs. Speed test with a minus to the thug because his bat is a slow weapon.

<A short scuffle ensues and Johnnie gets him on the ground in a choke hold>

Johnnie: Easy difficulty for Intimidation now?  Okay, made my roll.  "Who is in there?"

Tough: "Ju-just a couple of guys..."

Johnnie: "Tell me who!" I tighten the choke hold.

Tough: "Uh...Tony, Manny and a new kid."

Johnnie: "Yeah, strong-arms like you, laddie?  What are they packing?  Tommy guns?"

Tough: "I can't breathe...no...just heaters."  He's going to be unconscious soon.

Johnnie.  Fine, I got what I need.  I'll knock him out and throw his bat in the water.  "Thanks, laddie."  I turn to Sarah, "This is only going to get rougher.  Still want to go into the lion's den?"

Sarah: <Nods> "I want to look that bastard in the eyes."

<The pair sneaks into the building and confronts Tony and the others who are playing cards in a back office.  Cases of illegal hooch line the walls.>

Manny: "What the hell?"

GM: Manny and the Kid start to go under their coats but are stopped by Tony, who they seem to respect. Tony puts his cards down gently and looks from Sarah to Johnnie and back again.

Tony: "Late night, folks.  What can I do for you?"

Sarah: I want to use a Plot Point to do a flashback.

GM: This should be good.  Okay, go ahead.

Sarah: Fade Out.  The neon lights flash inside the flophouse room as Sarah gets ready for work.  It's extra tough tonight because the makeup can only hide the bruises so much.  But no one looks at a cocktail waitress.  At least at her face.  She glances in fear at Tony who is laughing with someone on the phone and ignoring her.  Fade In.

GM and Tony: <Stunned silence>

Sarah: I told you there was something between us.

Johnnie: I want to make a Perception check to assess who is the greater threat. 

GM: Ok, roll and let's see how many successes you get.

Johnnie: <Rolls> Three.

GM: Johnnie is definitely in charge, but seems relatively calm given the situation.  Manny looks like the second-in-command and moved pretty quickly to protect his boss.  The Kid is green and has probably never used a gun before.  But he could be unpredictable if things go bad.  And you sense there is definitely something between Tony and Sarah.  When Tony looked at her there was a real sense of superiority over her.  That may be why he is so calm now.

Sarah: I want to take one of my Intimacy Points away from Johnnie and give it to Tony.

GM: <Raises an eyebrow>

Johnnie: What?

Sarah: Shuddup.  "Tony, it's been a long time.  Too long." I walk towards him.

GM: Tony is looking at Johnnie to see if this is a trick.

Johnnie: I'm looking surprised and not moving a muscle.

GM: Okay, this is a tough one.  Roll your Seduction versus Tony's Will.  Add +2 for the Intimacy Level.

Sarah: <Rolls> Got it!

GM: Okay, he is transfixed for the moment.  What happens?

Sarah: "Tony, this guy is nothing.  I used him just to come and see you.  We have some unfinished business." I smile and walk next to his chair.  As I lean down I pull my gun out of my coat pocket and point it straight at the jewels.

Johnnie: Gun?  What gun?

GM: Okay, that was a painful visualization.  And you gain a Plot Point for complicating the situation.  You have him by the...uh...so what happens now?

Sarah: The smile is gone now.  I'm emptying my relationship with Tony of its Intimacy Points and adding them to my pool.  "If you want to leave this room alive you will tell Johnnie everything he needs to know.  Do I make myself clear?"

[joepub]

I was really loving this gameplay outline...
except for two lines that stuck out, to me, like sore thumbs:

GM: Okay, so it's a Speed vs. Speed test with a minus to the thug because his bat is a slow weapon.

GM: Okay, this is a tough one.  Roll your Seduction versus Tony's Will.  Add +2 for the Intimacy Level.

The way the Intimacy and Contacts and Flashbacks work was awesome.
Then there are two tests which hint at a "generic skill list" type setup. (Unless I read into that wrong.)
Skill lists just don't seem to fit the genre, or the style of play.

Sarah: The smile is gone now.  I'm emptying my relationship with Tony of its Intimacy Points and adding them to my pool.  "If you want to leave this room alive you will tell Johnnie everything he needs to know.  Do I make myself clear?"

I'm really intrigued by "emptying a relationship"...
Can this be done freely?
Do you know yet?

Tony: "Late night, folks.  What can I do for you?"

Sarah: I want to use a Plot Point to do a flashback.

GM: This should be good.  Okay, go ahead.

Sarah: Fade Out.  The neon lights flash inside the flophouse room as Sarah gets ready for work.  It's extra tough tonight because the makeup can only hide the bruises so much.  But no one looks at a cocktail waitress.  At least at her face.  She glances in fear at Tony who is laughing with someone on the phone and ignoring her.  Fade In.

GM and Tony: <Stunned silence>

Wonderful.
Does Sarah gain a bonus for creating a Flashback?
Is there any mechanical gain to it?

[Caesar_X]

The way the Intimacy and Contacts and Flashbacks work was awesome.
Then there are two tests which hint at a "generic skill list" type setup. (Unless I read into that wrong.)
Skill lists just don't seem to fit the genre, or the style of play.

Yeah, guilty as charged here.  I got to those areas in the narrative and assumed that I would need some gamer mechanics to make them work.  But they didn't feel right at all.  I wonder how I could deal with those situations better?

I'm really intrigued by "emptying a relationship"...
Can this be done freely?
Do you know yet?

I was thinking that a player would be able to give Intimacy Points one at a time but then take any number of them away at once.  I was all proud of myself until I remembered that Mountain Witch does the same thing with Trust Points:)  The main difference is that MW does this between "chapters" and I thought I.P. could be transferred on the fly in Noir to really change up the dynamics of a scene.  I imagined those terrible realizations that the person who wronged you never really loved you.  It's a sinking feeling.

Wonderful.
Does Sarah gain a bonus for creating a Flashback?
Is there any mechanical gain to it?

So I was having a quandry there because I was having the characters use Plot Points to control the narrative or call for a flashback.  But the only bonus I could think of so far was...giving out more Plot Points.  I definitely want to reward the players for advancing the narrative and creating interesting complications and twists.  I don't want them to be able to take control of the narrative at any time for free, which is why I created a currency there.  But there has to be a better way to reward good behavior.

Thanks for the helpful feedback.  It's still early but things are starting to take shape in my mind already.  It's exciting!

Chris

[efindel]

Just reading this, I get a feeling that taking away Intimacy points from someone should require a betrayal or apparent betrayal.  That would tie it in to the actual game action, help put a limit on how much it can be done, and seems to fit the examples -- Sarah first apparently betrays Johnnie, then really betrays Tony.

Instead of skill lists, I'd suggest a fixed list of abilities.  You've got Speed, Perception, Seduction, Intimidation, and Will mentioned in there.  I'd suggest riffing off of those and coming up with a list of abilities with a film noir feel to them.  Maybe something like:

Knuckles - brute force
Feet - speed, agility
Beef - ability to "take it"

Face - charm, seduction
Eyes - perception
Spine - willpower

Seducing someone would be face vs. spine.  Intimidation could go different ways depending on how it's done -- spine vs. spine, knuckles vs. spine.

A "violence level" is mentioned in the example, which makes me think that the effectiveness of Intimidation should go down as it goes up -- the more violent things have already gotten, the less impact the simple threat of violence has.

Also, a classic Noir bit is the hero being roughed up, then going on anyways, often with renewed/increased interest... will there be something for that? 

[David "Czar Fnord" Artman]

I was having a quandary there because I was having the characters use Plot Points to control the narrative or call for a flashback.  But the only bonus I could think of so far was...giving out more Plot Points.  I definitely want to reward the players for advancing the narrative and creating interesting complications and twists.  I don't want them to be able to take control of the narrative at any time for free, which is why I created a currency there.  But there has to be a better way to reward good behavior.

So you have a currency to gain narrative control. That currency is gained from the GM. There needs to be a fair bit of it available each session (say, about three or four each PC?) to be able to run the game at all effectively (by your example above). So... How, mechanically in the system, do you gain them? Perhaps you should gain them by a group vote. Or gain them each time your PC "suffers" from another PCs narration (sort of an "I scratch your back, you scratch mine" thing).

You want to reward the players for interesting narration. So... What is "interesting?" Who decides? And... what else in the context of the game could be rewarding to the player other than narrative control? Perhaps you could offer Director Points--similar to Plot Points (Writer Points? Noir film-making as Color?!), but they can be used to state facts about the game WORLD, rather than about a PC's past.

o  Thus you'd have PCs start with a handful of Writer Points. Perhaps they buy them at character creation: a nice starting dilemma between raw efficacy versus narrative control.
o  To do a flashback, the player (Actor) must burn a Writer Point. This allows the player to narrate a scene from his or her character's (Protagonist's) past that DOES NOT assert facts about the game world, but he or she may assert historical facts about an NPC (Antagonist) with whom the character has a Connection (Connections are more stuff you can buy at creation).
o  If the flashback undermines, harms, or deprotagonizes another Protagonist, that Protagonist's Actor gets a Writer Point. [Hmmm... who desides THIS? The other? Another vote? The GM? the Actor? The system?]
o  All Protagonists vote--including the Actor and the GM (Director), and the Director's vote breaks ties--on whether the narration was cool, intersting, or appropriate. Each vote that exceeds the number needed for majority approval gains the Actor a Director Point. Example: In a five player game, if four vote Yea and one Nay, then the Actor gets one Director Point (4 is one higher than the 3 majority); in a seven player game, a 6 to 1 approval vote earn two (6 is two higher than the 4 needed for a majority).
o  Director Points may be spent to assert ONE fact about a CURRENT scene, not a flashback. This fact can be about anything other than another Protagonist's character: the game world, Antagonists, objects in the Scene, etc.
o  At each session (Episode) end, players--or just the GM?--reward experience (Script Points) which can be spent on attribute or skill increase or on Writer Points for the next Episode(s).

Whatcha think? Basically, I am trying to handle your wish for a currency-to-other currency transition as a reward, and make it a meaningful reward (hard to gain, very valuable) in the context of narrativism. I also am trying to couple Script Points-as-creation elements to Script Points as currency for Writer Points (a third currency-to-other currency translation):

-----creation-----
Script Points (players convert to)-> Writer Points
-----start Episode-----
Writer points (players spend for)-> flashbacks
flashbacks (if harming to another)-> Writer Points (for other)
flashbacks (player vote to reward)-> Director Points
-----end of Episode-----
all narration (players vote to reward)-> Script Points
-----return to creation-----


Worth a damn?
David

[joepub]

Knuckles - brute force
Feet - speed, agility
Beef - ability to "take it"

Face - charm, seduction
Eyes - perception
Spine - willpower

All gold. except feet doesn't seem to fit, genre-wise.
But "knuckles", "beef", "face" and "spine" definitely do.


And the fact that it would be "beef" vs "spine" or something makes for a quick test...
Something that's uncluttered.

And it definitely plays off of the genre - you could pick any two "attributes" and imagine a character that builds off them.
It helps create archetypes:
Knuckles and Feet - a snot-nosed punk. A runner. A street soldier. Or, alternately, someone like Elijah Wood's character in Sin City (his character name escapes me.)

Knuckles and Beef - Marv. A walking tank. The big, gruff biker in the back of the bar. The bad guy who just won't die.

Eyes and Spine - The main good guy. The detective. The one who "wont' be swayed by dumb dames or bribes".

Eyes and Feet - The detective. Police Officer. Someone who saves the day at the last second. Quick minded, quick witted, quick footed.

etc, etc, etc.


I'd suggest doing NON-RANDOMIZED attributes (ie, no roll 4d6 or whatever.)
Have players pick two as their strengths, and get 8 to those (for example).
Pick three that are mediocre and get 5 to those (for example.)
And pick a weakness, and get 3 or 4 (for example.)

[Caesar_X]

Wow, great stuff guys!  I only saw some of this before spending the weekend out of town.  But on the plane I started filling a notebook with ideas and an wrote up an initial draft of the game rules for Noir.  Take a look here and feel free to comment either here or on the group itself.

http://groups.google.com/group/Noir_RPG

Thanks,
Chris