[TSOY] Self-made keys

[Halzebier]

I'm trying to get the hang of TSOY, so I've created two keys to express the personality of an old D&D character of mine.

Key of Disrespect
Your character likes to behave disrespectfully
Gain 1 XP every time you blatantly disregard common courtesy, proper etiquette, protocol etc.
Gain 3 XP every time you do the above, knowing that it entails severe consequences or risks.
Buyoff: Make an obvious effort to behave yourself and mean it.

Do you think the "and mean it" part is necessary? Or should I rather ditch the "obvious" part? Buying off a key is a dramatic personality change and as such, if your character tries to behave himself, but fails and nobody even notices that he tried, he should still be able to buy off the key, right?

In the same vein, what about player vs. character knowledge here? If the character has reason to believe the king will have him thrown into the dungeons if he doesn't bow down, but the player knows the king probably won't, what's the deal? Do I get the XP if my character refuses to bow down?

Key of Recklessness
Your character likes to act recklessly.
Gain 1 XP every time you throw caution to the wind despite a possible risk or drawback.
Gain 3 XP every time you throw caution to the wind despite a great risk or drawback.
Buyoff: Act with obvious caution.

In the D&D game this character was in, I was often frustrated by endless debates about how to approach a situation. I built a character with maximum survivability (e.g. lots of hit points) and then proceeded to just end deliberations by walking down the unexplored corridor, pressing the button, charging out of hiding etc. I triggered traps left and right and took a lot of hits, but I loved every minute of it. Whenever our current D&D game stalls, I miss this old character.

The above may sound as if I was being an asshole in playing this character -- it sure sounds like that to me. The dynamics of that game are for another post and another day though. As far as TSOY is concerned, I don't see any problems with these keys.

I have to admit that many of the keys in the rules left me cold, but now that I've done this little exercise, I'm positively burning with desire to play TSOY. I think I may be starting to grok the whole Key concept.

Regards

Hal

[Ricky Donato]

First, please excuse me while I steal those Keys. They're very cool. :-)

Regarding the Key of Disrespect: From the rulebook:

All Keys have a Buyoff, which is a reversal from the Key by the character. This Buyoff occurs only when you, the player, wants it to happen.

The buyoff only occurs if the player wants it to happen. He can portray the character as respectful and retain the Key, so I don't think the "and mean it" part is necessary.

I can't answer you about the player knowledge vs. character knowledge, though, and that is a good question.

[Eero Tuovinen]

You have everything well on hand. A short answer about character vs. player knowledge: key-wise a situation carries risks or sacrifices only if the player knows it so. If the character thinks it's so but the player knows the situation is safe, that's not enough to warrant a higher reward. Likewise, a reward is not docked just because a character is ignorant. Because the player makes all the decisions, it's the player knowledge that matters, always.

The only exception, actually, are some rare non-motivational ("dramaturgic") keys that deal with character feelings. For instance, if a non-motivational key gave you five xp for the character turning against his own people without knowing about it ("The Key of Tragedy" or something like that), then it would be character knowledge that mattered, and not the player knowledge. The key would only be triggered by unknowing action, but the player could still direct his character into a situation that resulted in such. The difference between motivational and dramaturgic keys is very much in whether the key concerns player decisions or events happening in the fiction. The character knowledge is all about the latter.

[JMendes]

Hi, :)

what about player vs. character knowledge here? If the character has reason to believe the king will have him thrown into the dungeons if he doesn't bow down, but the player knows the king probably won't, what's the deal? Do I get the XP if my character refuses to bow down?

I think this is a highly subjective question with no clear cut answer. How I would do it is to take a detailed look at:
- How the player "knows" that the king "probably" won't do it; and
- Why the character "believes" that the king will.

I'd need to compare the answers to these two questions before I could give a definitive answer on whether the XPs are granted or not. It may, in fact, be entirely possible that, within the same game, I would let a player have the XPs in one circumstance, and then turn around later and not let him have it, depending on the exact contest.

Cheers,
J.

[John Harper]

Do I get the XP if my character refuses to bow down?

Yes.

I have to disagree with Eero and J. You get XP for a Key when your character performs an action listed for the Key. Player/character knowledge is not a factor.

If the Story Guide (or you!) sets up a situation where you can mouth off to the King without consequences... hey, good for you. Take the XP and move on. Remember: The Story Guide is not the only or final authority on when/how you get XP for Keys.

[Alan]

I'm with John on the knowledge thing.  XP for TSOY keys come from events that the players create.  It doesn't matter if the characters know or not.

I do have one concern for both the Keys in the first post -- they both strike me as personality quirks rather than Keys.  I understood that the purpose of Keys was to give the player a chance to point toward the kind of story elements he or she would like to develop in play -- something that leads to real story conflict with other characters and represents a drive for the player to get involved in things.  These two Keys seem more like ways that the character can snipe at NPCs from the sidelines, gain XP, and not really get involved in any personal story. 

[Ricky Donato]

Hi, John,

I agree that if the character mouthes off to the king, he gets XP. But how much does he get? Looking at the Key again:

Gain 1 XP every time you blatantly disregard common courtesy, proper etiquette, protocol etc.
Gain 3 XP every time you do the above, knowing that it entails severe consequences or risks.

So does he get 1 XP or 3 XP? That depends on "knowing it entails severe consequences or risks". But who needs to know it, the player or the character? Eero states that it is player knowledge that matters, not character knowledge. That sounds like a good choice, because that seems to fit what TSoY is all about.

[John Harper]

Oh! Sorry, I didn't read that bit closely enough. I'd say the "knowing" party there would be the player, yes.

But to simplify matters, just re-word the key:

-- 1 XP every time the character blatantly disregards common courtesy, proper etiquette, protocol etc.
-- 3 XP every time the character or her friends suffer as a result of her disrespect.

That's more like a "standard" Key, to me.

[Halzebier]

I think this is a highly subjective question with no clear cut answer. How I would do it is to take a detailed look at:
- How the player "knows" that the king "probably" won't do it; and
- Why the character "believes" that the king will.

I'd need to compare the answers to these two questions before I could give a definitive answer on whether the XPs are granted or not. It may, in fact, be entirely possible that, within the same game, I would let a player have the XPs in one circumstance, and then turn around later and not let him have it, depending on the exact contest.

Agreed. This shows once again that these things are best discussed with some Actual Play (rather than with hypotheticals).

-- 1 XP every time the character blatantly disregards common courtesy, proper etiquette, protocol etc.
-- 3 XP every time the character or her friends suffer as a result of her disrespect.

I'd expect consequences even in the 1 XP version -- the character will probably make a bad impression and occasionally get a door slammed in his face etc. I envisioned the 3 XP version for serious consequences. (But that's probably what you mean by "suffer"...)

I do have one concern for both the Keys in the first post -- they both strike me as personality quirks rather than Keys.  I understood that the purpose of Keys was to give the player a chance to point toward the kind of story elements he or she would like to develop in play -- something that leads to real story conflict with other characters and represents a drive for the player to get involved in things.  These two Keys seem more like ways that the character can snipe at NPCs from the sidelines, gain XP, and not really get involved in any personal story.

If I saw the personality traits "reckless" and especially "disrespectful" on a character sheet in a traditional game - say, illusionist AD&D -, I'd get a sinking feeling and expect serious trouble. The traits sound like excuses to derail the plot (reckless) or piss on the GM (disrespectful). My prediction in such a case: Whenever a friendly NPC is vital to advance the pre-planned plot (e.g. by hiring the PCs, providing a vital clue, or appealing to the PCs), the player will insult said NPC, thereby either derailing the adventure or making the NPC - and by extension in this case, the GM - suffer abuse.

So if the GM let a disrespectful character get away with insulting the king in TSOY, the game would be in trouble. But if the character is thrown into the dungeon, well, you've got a story.

I think the disrespect shown must be really blatant - i.e. of the deliberate faux pax variety - and as such should carry consequences in any but the most anarchic situation (where, arguably, there's no protocol to defy). A personality quirk would indeed not be enough. I would hope that the key would drive the game toward conflicts with all sorts of NPCs and questions of ostracism and authority in general.

(As for the Key of Recklessness: I think it should give the GM ample opportunity to get the PC into deep shit.)

*-*-*

Eero, good point about dramaturgic keys - this is fascinating!

Regards,

Hal