You Are A Maggot-Infested Sewer Goat! (Initiative?)

[Nathan]

Hoping beyond hopes that my topic thread is not force-changed by Clinton R. Nixon (aka ForumGod), I have a colorful strange idea for initiative in EAK. Right now, you see, initiative is merely a roll of the dice -- and that's fine -- but it really needs a bit more personality.

I played a terrific computer game called Curse of Monkey Island. In duels between ship captains, you would win by having the most creative insults. To defend an insult, you had to match it with an insult that rhymes.

I was considering working up an insult based initiative system into EAK. One side gives an insult, the other side has to respond with one that rhymes with it. Then the other side gives the starting insult, and so on until one side breaks. That determines you initiative....

Of course, I do have a SPEED stat in my game, so alas, it would render that rather null. Perhaps this could be an add-on sort of thing? When battling for initiative, you gain bonuses by the more witty grueling insult tossed. But the catch would be that it has to rhyme with his opponents name or some such. So perhaps I say -- "You are a maggot infested goat, You pathetic excuse Mr. Frote!" Or whatever, assuming his name is Frote. In any event, the longer the insult, the bigger the bonus!

Anyway, I'm getting tired of the ol' dumb roll for init and highest goes first and so on...

Whatcha think, willis?

Thanks,
Nathan

[Ron Edwards]

Hi Nathan,

All that just for initiative? Any way that it might be utilized for more, like (a) initiative and (b) the extent of the damage/effect? That's just a suggestion; any sort of multiple-pronged usage of the mechanic could be fun, especially if at least one mechanic/roll/resolution remains to be carried out.

Best,
Ron

[Laurel]

I admit that I'd probably find the insult exchanging to be time-consuming and interfering once the novelty wore off.  Saving it for special scenes could be fun though.

Laurel

[Walt Freitag]

Ritualized boasting is a part of so many heroic traditions, surely someone must have already based some game's resolution system on it. (That's not the same as exchanging insults, but a system that handled one should be adaptable to handling the other.)

Actually, I like the idea of a boasting challenge better than insults. Try this: boasts must be past deeds the boaster claimes to have done ("what I did," not "what I could do.") Drop the rhyming thing, and just require each boast to be more impressive than the last. But, what makes it interesting is, either side can challenge the other's boast. At that point, a new scene occurs, flashing back in time, wherein the boaster must actually perform the deed boasted of. Succeed, and the boasting match is also won. Fail, and the challenged boast was never made and the opponent wins the boasting match.

Of course, the system would need some resolution mechanism other than boasting matches themselves, or else the whole thing would regress back in time to the Big Bang.

- Walt

[Paul Czege]

...either side can challenge the other's boast. At that point, a new scene occurs, flashing back in time, wherein the boaster must actually perform the deed boasted of. Succeed, and the boasting match is also won. Fail, and the challenged boast was never made and the opponent wins the boasting match.

That rocks!

Paul

[Matt Gwinn]

Drop the rhyming thing, and just require each boast to be more impressive than the last. But, what makes it interesting is, either side can challenge the other's boast. At that point, a new scene occurs, flashing back in time, wherein the boaster must actually perform the deed boasted of. Succeed, and the boasting match is also won. Fail, and the challenged boast was never made and the opponent wins the boasting match.

THat reminds me a lot of Primeval.  I really hope it's ready by Gencon.

,Matt G.

[Nathan]

I am in a strange mood,
Do not consider me rude,
For I will not try to con,
You like the evil man named Ron!

(I am not much of a poet.)

Anyway, the boasting idea almost fits -- except that it would be almost too much.

Ron, the insult as an applicable mechanic anywhere sounds good too. I already was going to include a Word of Power rule which allowed wizards to have a word of power to be used once per day for an instant +2 bonus to any action. The word could be gibberish, their father's name, or some secret word. Once you defeated wizards, you could gain their words of power as well. That way, you could really blast someone if needed.

So, this is already similar to a universal insult rule -- I don't want it to be another piling of heap on a simple, silly BUT FUN game. I will have to mull this all over.

The novelty is a key thing -- I could see it becoming drab. But at the same time, I could see a player working in between pauses in gameplay to scribble down new insults prepared for the bad villain at the end of the adventure. That way, he can pop them out and get bonuses to much needed assaults and defenses. Especially, because I like having villains who have strange names -- like Ikolzar or something.

"Get out of my way Ikolzar,
Or I will remove a molar,
From your sickening maw,
Once and for all!"

Hmmmmmmm....

I still love the idea of trading back and forth, line by line or some such. And it could be optional -- why go into an insult duel between a meddling peon? On the other hand, an insult duel could be the perfect opportunity to gain a slight advantage on the big baddie at the end of the adventure.

Well, more comments?

Thanks,
Nathan

[contracycle]

Actually, I like the idea of a boasting challenge better than insults. Try this: boasts must be past deeds the boaster claimes to have done ("what I did," not "what I could do.") Drop the rhyming thing, and just require

Hey!  My current exercise was going to employ a boasting mechanic, although I had only thought of having it as a challenge response thing - one player says "tell us about X" and the other player has to make up a tale about X or let the player who proposed it take the description rights.  But I like the resolution-in-flashback idea a lot, and I'll steal that if you don't mind.

[Walt Freitag]

I don't mind at all. The real heavy lifting here is determining how the flasback scene gets framed and narrated leading up to its resolution. I hope the boasting-opponent gets to inject adversity, perhaps in the guise of being impressed:

Boaster's Opponent: "Really? That's amazing! And was the damsel's irate husband also the leader of a secret cult of assassins?"

Boaster (carefully weighing his dwindling dice pool): "Uh... yeah, now that you mention it, he was. Fortunately he hadn't gotten a good look at my face..."

Play could be really creative and unrestrained, because it's not decided whether the scene actually happened or not until after it's resolved. If the character dies a horrible death in the flashback, all it does is revoke the original boast.

Anyway, I look forward to seeing what you come up with.

Meanwhile, Nathan's original rhyming insults idea is growing on me. For a lighthearted game it could be a lot of fun. And it puts that old "true names" thing in a whole new light. If you know someone's name, it gives you lots of time to make up insulting poems about them!

I'm thinking of the colorful tradition of insulting rhymes in the American press, going back to before the American War for Independence. Anyone who thinks present-day politics is down and dirty should read some samples of broadsides published in the 18th century. This is an example directed at Gage, the Royal Governor in Boston, before the war broke out (this is from memory, so it may not be completely accurate word for word):

What's more, it's known by men of thinking
That GAGE will kill himself a-drinking.
Further, it's said by the inn-keepers
He'll bung with shoe-boys, chimney sweepers.

- Walt

[Bob McNamee]

I could see this as a great Superhero type mechanic... one thing I never cared about Champions was that once the wargame combet started the "insults and imreesive boasts" part dropped out except for the occasional Presense attack.  This would make banter apart of it all... hmm

Bob McNamee