Ghost Walkers: The Ninth Life

[Mcrow]

So I'm working on a new game concept. One of the things that is a big part of the game is alternate death. For example:

You are driving down the road and a car comes out of nowhere, but you zig and zag around it avoiding a crash. Or so you think. In fact you did not avoid the crash and were dead on impact but a shell of your former self lives on.  Your soul ,disjointed from your body, enters another plane waiting for the body release strand that binds it so it can continue to the afterlife. Some people(Ghost Walkers) are able to recover their souls. Each Ghost Walker has different ancient mystical heritage that when revealed in full gives the cahracter the ability to recover their soul. However, a Ghost Walker cannot in one fell swoop discover all that needs to be learned about their heritage. They will learn piece by piece a little at a time as they investige and research. As they learn more characters manifest super-human powers. Once they discover the way to recover their soul, they are left with a decision. Either become fully human again and lose their powers or not recover their souls and keep their powers. Ghost Walkers sometimes are able to detect each other and sometimes form Cells where they assist each other. The world ,though, is not always a rosey helpfull place and their are those who oppose Ghost Walkers.

Now that is the basic idea, I need to flesh out a lot of stuff, but this what I'm after in a nutshell.

The question is how do I model this in an RPG?

One thought with a cut-away seen for each character when they "die" where each PC gets to describe who they were how they died. Using what the players says the GM assists them in generating a the characters GW form.

What I'm going for is a game where the players are constantly struggling with wanting to be whole (body and soul) but the power of being a Ghost Walker is so attarctive that it creates a dilema. 

Any suggestions?

Thanks.

[Certified]

Very nice concept, I think there's a huge amount of potential for this idea. What I would suggest is look ways to model the rules around the concept.

From what you posted perhaps look at ways to measure the Ghost Walker's connection to their spirit and how far along they are towards enlightenment and the strength of their abilities. From what you said in the thread it looks like they oppose each other in the setting so why not have rules that follow suit? Having one conflict the other.

That is to say at times the character may need to use his link with his spirit to accomplish something (Social Interactions?) but this could be opposed by his otherworldly nature and vice versa. When the character needs to call on his supernatural abilities the link to his spirit self becomes strained and opposes it. Maybe even have it so that if once grows stronger over all the other must be diminished.

That's just a rough idea from what you've presented I hope it helps. Good luck with this project and I look forward to seeing what you have comes of it.

[Madheretic]

Now, you really should ask for something more specific than "any suggestions," but here's something that popped into my head:

I think you could pump up the conflict between wanting to be "whole" by making the character's choice to remain a Ghost Walker have immediate personal consequences. While they are running around turning clocks backwards with their minds, their former lives are getting away from them: The kids are growing up and forgetting about them, their lovers are moving on to new people, their jobs get handed to those wormy brown-nosers they always hated.

It is up to you whether or not to reflect this mechanically, eg. "Every session you choose to continue Ghost Walking lose four dice from your relationships. Once a relationship is at two there is a major rift in the relationship, at zero they don't know you anymore," or not, but it's very important that the players know that they will lose something important.

One thing that has me concerned is the idea that it takes a while to be able to retrieve your soul. I like the idea of feverishly working to restore your humanity before it's too late, but I'm worried that this will provide an environment where the really juicy themes are kept on hold for the first ten sessions.

I've considered two ways of addressing this issue:
1.) Always have soul-retrieval possible, but doing so relies on a roll that is very unlikely to succeed at the beginning but that becomes progressively more probable. This may serve to keep player's attention to the ultimate question of when they plan to return to their normal lives.
2.) Have a mechanic that deals with the pace of their research. I've thought of a few interesting possibilities for what you might risk or trade off to speed things up, but I don't think you'll have too much trouble figuring something out for yourself. This forces the players to deal with the question of what they're willing to give up to be human again in a way that will come up at every session.

I couldn't help but think of Sorcerer when I read your post, so a look at how they handle the issue of giving up humanity for power would probably be helpful.

[Mcrow]

Very nice concept, I think there's a huge amount of potential for this idea.

Thanks!

What I would suggest is look ways to model the rules around the concept.

From what you posted perhaps look at ways to measure the Ghost Walker's connection to their spirit and how far along they are towards enlightenment and the strength of their abilities. From what you said in the thread it looks like they oppose each other in the setting so why not have rules that follow suit? Having one conflict the other.

That is to say at times the character may need to use his link with his spirit to accomplish something (Social Interactions?) but this could be opposed by his otherworldly nature and vice versa. When the character needs to call on his supernatural abilities the link to his spirit self becomes strained and opposes it. Maybe even have it so that if once grows stronger over all the other must be diminished.

That's just a rough idea from what you've presented I hope it helps. Good luck with this project and I look forward to seeing what you have comes of it.

Thanks for the input. Yeah, I'm working on the basic mechanics of the game right now. The plan is to have a mechanic where the characters can using the abilites, but the more the push the limits of those abilities the weaker the link to their soul becomes, maybe to the point the connections is lost. I'll be sure to post again when I have the first version of the rules done.

[Mcrow]

Now, you really should ask for something more specific than "any suggestions," but here's something that popped into my head:

sorry about that, I was in a bit of a hurry.

I think you could pump up the conflict between wanting to be "whole" by making the character's choice to remain a Ghost Walker have immediate personal consequences. While they are running around turning clocks backwards with their minds, their former lives are getting away from them: The kids are growing up and forgetting about them, their lovers are moving on to new people, their jobs get handed to those wormy brown-nosers they always hated.

Yes, this was the intent that if they took to long to retrieve their soul that their loved ones and other who they have connections with will move on and in some cases forget them all together.

It is up to you whether or not to reflect this mechanically, eg. "Every session you choose to continue Ghost Walking lose four dice from your relationships. Once a relationship is at two there is a major rift in the relationship, at zero they don't know you anymore," or not, but it's very important that the players know that they will lose something important.

The basic system I'm working on now is a very simple die pool system and there would be qualities used like "relationships" and "connections". As the game goes on and the longer it takes these connections to their previous life would fade. So they may lose a die per session from each relationship or connection.

One thing that has me concerned is the idea that it takes a while to be able to retrieve your soul. I like the idea of feverishly working to restore your humanity before it's too late, but I'm worried that this will provide an environment where the really juicy themes are kept on hold for the first ten sessions.

Good point.

I've considered two ways of addressing this issue:
1.) Always have soul-retrieval possible, but doing so relies on a roll that is very unlikely to succeed at the beginning but that becomes progressively more probable. This may serve to keep player's attention to the ultimate question of when they plan to return to their normal lives.
2.) Have a mechanic that deals with the pace of their research. I've thought of a few interesting possibilities for what you might risk or trade off to speed things up, but I don't think you'll have too much trouble figuring something out for yourself. This forces the players to deal with the question of what they're willing to give up to be human again in a way that will come up at every session.

I couldn't help but think of Sorcerer when I read your post, so a look at how they handle the issue of giving up humanity for power would probably be helpful.

There will be a mechanic that regulates the pace which puts more & more pressure on the PC to retrieve the soul before all connection is lost.

It may be a sin, but I have not read or played Sorcerer yet, I guess I'll have to check it out.

Thanks for the thoughts.

[coldblackwind]

One quick idea that popped into my head as I have read this post.

How about instead of just dealing with the land of the living, go into the world of spirits as well.

Enable the Ghost Walker to go "out of body" and walk the spirit realm. This would be a fantastical place of your own making that lies hidden from our world but also has a real impact on it as well. That way you would have two realms, one of the living and one of the dead and only the Ghost Walker can "walk the line" since he/she has been there before.

Just an idea

[Mcrow]

One quick idea that popped into my head as I have read this post.

How about instead of just dealing with the land of the living, go into the world of spirits as well.

Enable the Ghost Walker to go "out of body" and walk the spirit realm. This would be a fantastical place of your own making that lies hidden from our world but also has a real impact on it as well. That way you would have two realms, one of the living and one of the dead and only the Ghost Walker can "walk the line" since he/she has been there before.

Just an idea

That is a very good, idea.  The version of that that i have been thinking about  goes something like this:

A Ghost Walker can access the spirit realms. Spirit realms are paralell to the modern world is some way. Like there may be a spirit realm where all the people in the living world have a spiritual incarnation in the realm, though they are not aware of it. If something happens to an incarnation in a Spiritual realm, something equally bad happens to them in the Living world. Ghost Walkers not only can access the spirit realms but when they Ghost Walk they actually enter the spirit world. While in the spirit world some of their powers get even stronger than they are in the living world, while others may get weaker. Now  spirit realm can take any form, fantasy, future, time travel, Lovecraftian or pretty much anything else. Common things that are in all of them is that each person in the realm has a living world version,Ghost Walkers are generally the people running the show(governments,nobility, ect...), and every action in a spirit realm has an effect in the living world.

[Ron Edwards]

Are you familiar with the games Lost Souls and Dead Inside? If not, check them out. Neither represents exactly what you're talking about, but both will provide great points of comparison for you.

Best, Ron

[Mcrow]

Are you familiar with the games Lost Souls and Dead Inside? If not, check them out. Neither represents exactly what you're talking about, but both will provide great points of comparison for you.

Best, Ron

I never seen Lost Soul. I hear people mention Dead Inside around every now and then but don't know what it is about. I will certainly check them out. Thanks for the suggestions.

[Judd]

I am just thinking about the character sheet.

What do you want on it?

I'm thinking: How you died, what means shit to you that is still living and what entices you about the Ghost Walker way of unlife.

Maybe when your ties to the world of the living get cut, you're gone, no longer a PC.

The basic system I'm working on now is a very simple die pool system and there would be qualities used like "relationships" and "connections". As the game goes on and the longer it takes these connections to their previous life would fade. So they may lose a die per session from each relationship or connection.

I like the idea that their ties to the world are fading with time.

I also picture a kind of MLwM GM role in threatening things that keep PC's tied to the living world.

If you've got a basic die mechanic in your head, rassle up a character sheet, write down some rule and see how it flies and flops.

[Mcrow]

I am just thinking about the character sheet.

What do you want on it?

I'm thinking: How you died, what means shit to you that is still living and what entices you about the Ghost Walker way of unlife.

Maybe when your ties to the world of the living get cut, you're gone, no longer a PC.

The basic system I'm working on now is a very simple die pool system and there would be qualities used like "relationships" and "connections". As the game goes on and the longer it takes these connections to their previous life would fade. So they may lose a die per session from each relationship or connection.

I like the idea that their ties to the world are fading with time.

I also picture a kind of MLwM GM role in threatening things that keep PC's tied to the living world.

If you've got a basic die mechanic in your head, rassle up a character sheet, write down some rule and see how it flies and flops.

I envision the character sheet to be equal parts stat keeper, user guide, and motivational tool.The player would choose a :

• profession (what they did before they became a Ghost Walker)
• an "Extraction" basically how they died
• living world connections (family & loved ones)
• choose their Kismet

The last three will each have separate mechanical uses, but all four will be used to help the player left the GM know "hey, this is how I want to play!" and rewards the player when they play the character as they designed it. Most likely with bonus dice or extra actions, haven't worked that out just yet.

[sean2099]

Hi Mcrow,

I can't help but think of White Wolf's Wraith: The Oblivion.  It doesn't match your idea exactly but it deals with the afterlife and people trying to maintain what is important to them.  What happens when they retrieve their souls?  Do they move on to the afterlife fulltime, reincarnate or come back from the dead or what?  I am probably not understanding your idea exactly.  Are you saying choose to be a Ghost Walker with no one to remember or an "ordinary" soul with people to remember to passing?

Sean