The future of Riddle of Steel. What do you all want

[Ace]

Right now it looks like Jake has enough on his hand to keep him busy for the next year or so.

However if TROS catches on (and it has a very good chance to do so) I am curious as to what what would people like to see either in print or in web support after the big three are ready (Sorcery and the Fae, Beastiary and  The Flower of Battle)

I would also be interested in what people don't want to see

I should mention I regard TROS as a simulationist game and less of a narativist one so be warned :)

For me I would like to see

A Senechals Companion:

It would have world building tidbits.  For example it would be great to know how to build an NPC based on his experience (just how tough is a ten year veteran vs a 10 year veteran courtier)
Rules for "more heroic" characters would be great for those (like me) who want to use the really cool bits in different sorts of games than Dark Fantasy.
Heck I can write the More Heroic part for the web if you like.
Also some "Intrigue" type stuff would be great, How do I as make intersting adventures around , Swashbuckling, Bravado, Reparte and Wits?
Inquiring Minds want to know :)
Also Poisons and Diseases would be nifty as well, for simplicity stick to real world ones. The current disease system is pretty good but it is more simple than I like and it makes disease a little to deadly.

Even back then people were rarely maimed (aged) by most diseases. Temporary or MInor loss of stats sure but heavy losses, not as likely.

A metasystem with rules for running a feif or a business would be neat. Something like Harn Manor" but make it broad enough to adapt to other games.

For example increased crop yields via spell will have X effect. Add potatoes or an improved plow Add Y effect and so on.

Another arms book either "Warring Arts" or maybe "Paradoxes and Defense" :)
This book would basically fill in everything that doesn't make "The Flower of Battle" especially weapons up to the Flintlock Era. .

An alternate magic system:
I will refrain from any comments on TROS magic till I have had a chance to play with the system in a game.

However  I would love a supplement based on Real World magical practices. There might be a bit of New Age iterepretation but basically its Middle Ages/Ancient Magic made gamable.

This would let me take TROS out of Weyerth and into Real Earth (well sort of) Combine with Ken Hites Suppresed Transmission and stir....

Alternate worlds;
Definetly a web project IMO but homemade worlds with a different spin are always fun.

I will convert  my world once I figure out the issues with its magic system and post it if Jake approves, thats maybe of course

Alternate Eras:
I like the Riddles combat system, char gen and mechanics.

I think they would be great for a pirates game or a regency like game (something like Theresa Edgarton's Goblin Moon duology or Ellen Kushners Swordspoint)

Maybe a "rules add on" on the web or compiled into "Other realms" to allow these games. List gear, skills and any special rules needed. Background data is actually optional, I would point out Pendragon or GURPS books instead.

As to licensed books I would stay away from those in general but if you had ambitions I would go  George RR Martins "Game of Thrones'".
as Martin is an avid GURPS gamer (so I am told) and would I supect would like the spiritual attributes and combat system.
This book has good recognition and might sell reasonbly well.

Finally as to not wants:

Too many adventures: One or two is probably enough.

Too many little sourcebooks on nations:Oh I'd buy them alright but one or two bigger books is handier IMO.

Non ancient rules : I like the TROS rules but I am not sure it would be a good use of time to stretch the game into something universal.

Web supplements would always be welcome but I am not sure Driftwood ought to get involved with that sort of thing.

While I do  like the idea of using The Riddle in modern games but I think it belongs on the web.

If the company grows a ton ask again later ;)

Finally, partnerships:

If you want to work with other companies I would suggest Columbia Games. Harn world (which is very dark ages in feel) would work really well with TROS. A little cross linking with Green Knight Press (the current Pendragon RPG guys) might also bring in a bit of traffic.

Also don't forget Pyramid particuarly Press releases and the .industry news group

Now  I am going to post this on RPG net too so Jake if you read it save your sanity just cut and paste any response you wish to make over there. One "hellpost" is enough

[Jake Norwood]

I'm real curious to see what people respond here...it really will make a difference in our decisions. And, again, I extend an ever-so-open call for web supplements. Think of it as an online OGL for TROS...

[Nick the Nevermet]

Damn.
long post.
and I read it twice *Sob*  God I'm a moron :)
I'm posting reply here for several reasons, not the least of which is i think the rpg.net thread should die a natural death.  Its been going long enough, and now it is scaring people more than anything else.

ok... where to start.
I apologize if I don't add anything - my brain is incapable of productive thought right now.  I'll just react to what Ace said.

TROS as simulationist/narrativist:  Not gonna touch this one, even if I did know the terminology well.  I will say, however, that from reading posts from people like Ron E., Vladimir, and Jaif, I think its safe to say this is going to be an interesting tension.

What I'm NOT interested in seeing:  A metaplot.  My own personal twitch here, but I really think there are better ways of structuring a game and its supplements than giving a plotline that evolves through time.  I think that with TROS' setup, a supplement strategy like Fading Suns (just an example) would be appropriate.  In that format, you expand detail outwards, or more deeply on a specific topic.  I also don't like splatbooks, but those are neither here nor there for TROS, as you don't have clear factions as much as games where splatbooks rule.

More 'heroic' rules: While I can get into the style that TROS is based in (*Pets my complete Thieves World collection*), I would love to see these rules.  Having rules for characters that are capital "H" Heroes I think would also fit.  They would be warrior kings and famous duelists.  I think its only a slight side-step for TROS to have characters who really ARE blessed or chosen or blooded or whatever.  I'll get back to this a little later.

I agree about the intrigue stuff.  Because of how lethal things are for everyone, TROS is one of the few fantasy games where I can easily envision a non-combat oriented party.  Maybe they're investigators for a king or something.  As things stand, TROS' main book has a slight paradox in that it spends a great deal of focus on a combat system that most sane players should try to avoid needing to use extensively. (This is what Jake was talking about in his talk about "Ambushes are good" in the rpg.net thread).  So, fleshing the intrigue stuff would be a great addition, IMO

I've always been a big fan of metasystems.  I own Lords & Domains for Pendragon, Harn manor, and Birthright for AD&D.  I think if a metasystem is to be made, a lot of thought needs to go into what should one do with it.  For example, is it for a local knight, or for a baron with relatively extensive holdings and responsibilities?  And what about characters with non-land based power, such as priests and merchants?  Does the metasystem explore them as well?  There are no right answers to these questions; they're just questions that should be explicitly answered early on.

Magic system: I haven't played and I don't own the magic book, so... opinion is on hold :)

Alternate Worlds: Possibly.  There are small references to other worlds / planes of existence in the main book.  I would be interested in this being explored.  Once again, the Thayrist in me comes out.

Alternate Eras: This would be very interesting, but I would personally prefer to have 1 era done well enough so I could extrapolate another.  YMMV

No adventures: Yeah... maybe a campaign or two.  For example, The Gelurois War as a stand-alone campaign would be fascinating.  I'd love to see campaign books like The Boy King for Pendragon, where the metaplot extends ONLY as far as the book.  All these campaign books would start within a year or two of the suggested date, and be self-contained.  I haven't thought this through, but at the moment I like it *shrug*

Nation sourcebooks: I'm unsure how you'd want to handle this, but I agree that making a lot would be... problematic.

Anyhow... thats all for me for now.  Hope I didn't make an ass outta myself :)

-Nevermet

[Bankuei]

I think one of the simplest and easiest things that you can put in that would definitely highlight the TROS system well is a "Real life" essay on combat.  If anyone has seen the Knuckleduster supplement that has a couple of interviews with police who've been in gun combat, along with some nice real world tidbits, I'd love to see something similar for TROS.   Perhaps it could be on the website or in the Flower, but either way.  

Of course, you guys have ARMA to draw upon, although folks fighting for life in melee combat probably would be harder to find(except maybe Indonesia or the Moros from the Phillipines and a few other, really dangerous spots).

The only other thing I'd really like to see is some more details on a the countries and their cultures.

Chris

[Rattlehead]

Two bits touched on by Ace really caught my attention. One, I'd like to see flintlocks and such available in Weyrth. They probably should be as rare as the Fey, but I think it adds to the "Swashbuckler" vibe that I get from TROS. Not that Conan the Barbarian wouldn't find his place in Weyrth, but I dig the whole rapiers and feathered cap bit. And wouldn't Iningo Montoya fit just right in here as well?

"'Ello, my name is Iningo Montoya, you keel my fodder - prepare to die."

The other thing is: I'd love to see a "campaign setting" book. I'd hate to see each realm broken up into individual books. At worst, maybe a book for each of the 3 "subcontinents", but I'd prefer just one big (real big?) book.

[Nick the Nevermet]

Heh... Inigo Montoya.
Read: what happens when a master duelist gets essentially ALL his passions firing at once.  I think that explains how he survives the knife wound and shoulder wounds pretty well.

As for a real comment, I think it sounds like everyone wants more cultural info... its just a matter of figuring out a good way to get it out.

-Nevermet

[Lance D. Allen]

My biggest want right now would probably do best as a web supplement. I basically want a total thumbnail view of the peoples of each of the lands. Something like: "Tez'hamun: Think egyptians, but..." A short paragraph describing the place and people as they relate to earth or other fantasy equivalents. I know that many don't want this, but I can't reiterate enough my idea that forcing players to read through the whole beefy section on the lands of Weyrth is not kosher with me. I want a summary of the lands, which ought to give the players an idea of what kind of peoples there are, so they can choose a few specific lands to read about, rather than the whole mess of them.

As for more.. I suppose Driftwood has to do something after the "corebooks" are out. Seriously though, I'm a corebook kinda guy. I'll buy everything that applies to the basics (or not so basics) and leave such things as purely setting info, adventures, and "metagame" books alone. (For example, I own the Shadowrun main book, Man and Machine, Matrix, Rigger 3, Magic in the Shadows, and will soon own Cannon Companion, but I'm seriously unlikely to get any other 3rd Ed. books)

However, I suppose I would like to see, and would likely buy a campaign world book (or 3, divided into Mainlund, Tegaarn and Maraiah) and a Seneschal's Companion.

Other than that, the Big Three (Flower of Battle, Sorcery and the Fey and the Bestiary) will probably do it for me. I might pick up a single adventure to see how they designers would do it, but not likely anything else.

But don't take this to mean that you shouldn't make other things. I'm just saying what I would buy. I'm only 1 customer, after all. I do intend to make as much business for Driftwood and Riddle of Steel as possible. I'm already raving to friends.

[Jaif]

In no particular order:

- Weapon & Armor details & maintenance.  Descriptions & pictures of different types of armor worn (here's a scale-mail breastplate w/sleeves, greaves, etc...), and the work involved in maintaining them.  Same with the weapons; you gave us some non-greyed out pictures, but no names.

- Bronze Age.  Speaking of pictures of weapons, you tease me with a picture of a falcata, and then don't talk about the Carthaginians and Romans at all. Sigh.  How is bronze age armor weaker?  That type of thing.

- New World supplement.  The opposite direction, so people can have their flintlocks.  It would be nice for you to nudge forward in time to Cortez and have one of the countries send a whole bunch of trouble-making mercs overseas and tell them to convert the sorcerous aztec wanna-bes.  (I've got to find more books on this; if you ever want to read what happens when brutal, villainous scum meet domestic evil incarnate, read about Cortez & his marauders.)  It doesn't have to literally be Cortez and the Aztecs, just translate to Weyrth.

- Flower-of-Battle.  If you're going to talk about knocking nations down in big battles and sieges, then you need to discuss how they're built-up too.

- Hold the line with Sorcery.  Ok, I'm going to get in trouble here, but I don't want to see you go all modern and have rezzes, easy spells, aging work-arounds, and so on.  I like my mages acting like a bunch of Kurgens (burning-out), and I really want to see mages refusing to do regrowth spells because it's not worth the months off their lives.

- It's got to be said - rewrite the sorcery chapter.  It was very hard to read in one or even two go-throughs, and frankly there's some new information in rpg.net thread that really makes a difference. Briefly: the whole idea that summoning magical energy as part of a spell of three doesn't auto-age a sorc, but helps the spell by adding Draw*lvl to the roll for purposes of duration. Anyway, unlike the rest of the book I found sorcery very difficult to pick up.  Love the concept, understand the basics about rolling to succeed, rolling to age, but got lost with all the fine points.

- For the website: write up an evil sorcerer's beginning play in game terms.  What permanent protection spells does he cast? What habits does he develop (cast farsight in the morning, that sort of thing)? Let me see what spells he uses to kill a lord in a remote manor and take over the estate.  When you say that a sorcerer in your campaign has destroyed armies, well, how?  What spell was it?

- There's a thread about this in this forum, but I'll stress here: don't introduce many new manuevers.  It may be called something different in Japanese, but a counter's still a counter.  I understand if you want to toss in a retarius (sp?) you need a new manuever for the net, but let's not go overboard.

- This is just a thought: historical personalities and units listings for the web site, with NPC stats.  Things like John Hawkwood and his mercenary company. (do I have the right guy? I always screw up names.)  Richard the Lion-Hearted and his knights on the crusade, and Saladin to oppose him.  Who was that Norman who beat the heck out of Byzantine Greece?  Anyway, describing these people and their units may give us something to throw into the campaigns, and it wouldn't hurt for people to hear a dose of reality either.

That's probably enough for now. :-)

-Jeff

P.S. The crooked sword, the one that looked like a scimitar in reverse, was the falcata in case someone wants to know.

[Jake Norwood]

When you say that a sorcerer in your campaign has destroyed armies, well, how? What spell was it?

Kindof a cool idea, using 2 spells. I don't remember the exact bits and pieces of it, but there was a Golen army going up against the outnumbered army that the heros were tagging along with, and the PC wizard did something like this:

He had the army bring him a few hundred bales of straw, and spead them out (unbaled) in a big field behind the goodguy army.

He used movement to lift the straw up into the air and held it there. Then he cast Sculpture, I think it was, to change the straw into steel. The end result was a whole bunch of hollow steel rods way up in sky. He then used the movement to hurl them at the opposing army. It was the equivalent of thousands of arrows (admittedly not as powerful as real arrows, but certainly not bad!

He didn't age all that much either, as I recall. With the aid of a second sorcerer (to take care of the transmutation, for example) he could have killed even more, or saved on even more life.

You gotta think "outta the box." Earthquakes and pillars of fire are cool and all, but lack imagination. There's lots of ways to skin a cat.

Jake

[Jaif]

Very nice.  Btw, the elephants in Footfall dropped metal rods from orbit: much the same idea, but they managed quite a bit more damage. :-)

-Jeff