[Character Generation] Weapon, Ranged and Combat Pool...

[Reprisal]

Hey all,

I just received my copy of The Riddle of Steel, and I got started almost immediately, but I hit something of a comprehension snag when I got to the "Calculate Your Pools" stage.

I understand how the pools themselves are mathematically calculated (Reflex + Weapon Pool), but I find myself somewhat confused by the term "Weapon Pool."

Now, I know that you break up your Proficiency points between the differing schools (sword & shield, polearm, dagger, etc.), but I don't understand what they actually do...  What's to stop someone from just putting a Proficiency of 1 in several techniques?

Do characters have a different Combat Pool for each style they know? For example, a separate Sword and Shield Pool?

I don't believe this theory is correct, as the sample character only has one Combat Pool, but I thought I'd include it so you can see what my first idea was... :)

My current theory is that Proficiencies are divided in such a way so that you can increase your combat pool by increasing the Proficiencies, in addition to increasing your stats (which indirectly increases your Reflex which increases CP...)  But if this is the case, I go back to saying: "What's to stop someone from taking differing techniques at 1 each?"

Anyway, I'm basically asking what dividing the Proficiency points between techniques actually does if they do no have much of anything to do with either the amount of dice you can use during combat, or raising Proficiency levels...

In any event, I hope I explained this cohesively enough, hehe.

Thanks in advance!

- Rep.

[Lance D. Allen]

Your combat pool is calculated by adding the proficiency to your reflex. For instance, Tiberius has proficiencies in: Cut and Thrust - 8, Pugilism/Brawling - 4, and Bow - 3. This makes his CP a 13 when fighting Cut and Thrust, 9 when brawling, and gives him a Missile Pool of 8. (Reflex and Aim are both 5). Thus, if you raise your C&T proficiency, your CP will raise when using that style. You do not get 14 + Reflex for any and all combat, you have to specialize in either a few or many styles.

If you are fighting with a weapon that your proficiencies do not cover, then you look at the default list for the proficiency which does cover that weapon. For example, if Tiberius were to pick up a greatsword, I would have to look at the default list for Greatsword/Longsword, which will tell me that the default for Cut and Thrust will give me a penalty of -3, making my CP with that weapon a 10 (from the original 13) which is considerably better than if I had to default to my pugilism (CP 9) which would end me up with a -4 penalty for a final result of 5 CP.

What I'm not totally sure on, though, is what happens when you mix maneuvers from different proficiencies that you possess in a single combat. Oh well.. What I don't know isn't answering your question. I hope the above does so.

[Nick the Nevermet]

Same combat is no problem; you just have different pool sizes every round

Now... switching in the middle of a round... thats uglier.  

The way things are written, I'd say the easy way is a character would need to spend an entire round in one style.  (i.e., you can't parry with your pole-axe combat pool, and then punch with your pugilism default)

The other way is the default penalties translate into extra activation costs.
I don't have the book with me, but lets say one guy's weapon proficiency defaults to pugilism -3, and the activation cost of a punch is 1.  I'd say that the total activation cost of a punch would be 4.  This may sound like a real nasty penalty, but 'mixing up' how you're fighting can be complicated.

With that being said, though, unless the PC is built in a rather unique way, needing to switch the type of combat pool half-way through a round wouldn't happen often, i'd think.

[Lance D. Allen]

My PC is fairly unique, I think. He's a cut-and-thrust who fights shortsword and arming glove. Anyhow, I moved the topic of dual proficiencies back over into mine and Brandon's Dueling thread, so as to not distract from Reprisal's posted topic.

[Reprisal]

Your combat pool is calculated by adding the proficiency to your reflex. For instance, Tiberius has proficiencies in: Cut and Thrust - 8, Pugilism/Brawling - 4, and Bow - 3. This makes his CP a 13 when fighting Cut and Thrust, 9 when brawling, and gives him a Missile Pool of 8. (Reflex and Aim are both 5). Thus, if you raise your C&T proficiency, your CP will raise when using that style. You do not get 14 + Reflex for any and all combat, you have to specialize in either a few or many styles.

All right, so my first assumption was correct.  Cool, now we're getting somewhere... So, now, I'll post a character and you can tell me what looks wrong...

Name: Dino Aeolus
Nationality: Helena
Philosophy: "To see the world is to know life."

Priorities: A - Attributes, B - Skills, C - Proficiencies, D - Social Class, E - Gifts & Flaws, F - Race.

Strength: 6
Agility: 5
Toughness: 4
Endurance: 4
Health: 5

Willpower: 5
Wit: 5
M. Aptitude: 4
Social: 6
Perception: 4

Destiny: 1 "I wil find my place in life."
Drive: 2 "I will see the world, all of it, and I will understand."
Faith: 1 "My belief in the Gods forges their belief in me."
Passion: 2 "The sea, it is my one true love."
Luck: 1

Reflex: 5
Aim: 4
Knockdown: 5
Knockout: 6
Move: 8

Proficiencies: 6 (Combat Pool Dice)

Sword and Shield: 3 (8)
Polearms: 2 (7)
Crossbows: 1 (5)

Gifts & Flaws: 1 Major Flaw, 1 Minor Gift; or 1 Minor Flaw (?)

Phobia - Being alone for an extended period of time.

Skill Packets and Levels (Soldier - 6, Sailor - 7)

Helenic Language (Native Tongue)
Imperial Tongue

Leadership: 6
Intimidate: 6
Riding: 6
Heraldry: 6
Strategy: 6
Tactics: 7
Battle: 5
First Aid: 5

Navigation: 7
Swimming: 6
Sailing: 7
Gambling: 8
Artillery: 8
Climbing: 7
Boating: 6
Tactics (Sea): 8
Heraldry (Flags): 6
Streetwise: 6
Astronomy: 8

Possessions: 15 Gold Standard (15 Gold, 300 Silver, 3600 Copper)

Rondel Dagger - 10 Copper
Short Sword - 10 Silver
Spear - 2 Copper

Crossbow - 15 Silver
48 Bolts - 48 Bits, or 12 Copper, or 1 Silver

Leather Jack w/ Sleeves - 10 Copper
Medium Round Shield - 10 Copper
Pot Helm - 5 Silver
Chain Shirt w/o Sleeves - 1 Gold

Average Freeman Clothing - 2 Silver
Average Freeman Clothing - 2 Silver
Merchant Clothing - 5 Silver
Soldier (Officer) - 3 Silver

Elabourate Ring - 1 Gold
Simple Necklace - 12 Silver, or 1 Gold

Spyglass - 2 Gold
"Travel Pack" - 6 Silver (Thank you for compiling a Travel Pack!)
Two Man Tent - 8 Copper

Starting Money

Gold Laurels - 8
Silver Laurels - 36
Copper Laurels - 48


So, am I correct in how this all works?  Do you have a separate Combat Pool for Sword and Shield, Polearms, etc?

[Ron Edwards]

Hey,

My only comment (if I were a Seneschal or fellow player) would be that the Destiny is too vague for use ... it's hard to imagine what scene or conflict would or wouldn't be appropriate for its use. Maybe if "place" were better articulated.

It looks to me as if you've done the Combat Pools just fine, at first glance.

Best,
Ron

[Jaif]

1) If I were min/maxing (bad Jeff), I would put 5 in sword & shield, and live with the default of 1 pole-arms that gave me.  It's a free point, take it. :-)

2) I agree w/Ron about the Destiny.

3) For faith, I assume you're referring to the Helene's native "pagan" gods and goddesses?

4) Passion - the book says a "specific person or entity".  Personally, I wouldn't allow "the sea" as an entity.  To further differentiate, if you have a passion for a thing that can't be destroyed, then I woudn't allow it.

-Jeff

P.S. Good name

[Valamir]

4) Passion - the book says a "specific person or entity".  Personally, I wouldn't allow "the sea" as an entity.  To further differentiate, if you have a passion for a thing that can't be destroyed, then I woudn't allow it.

Oh, I don't know.  I think there's enough literary precident for the sea as a passion.  Heck, ain't you ever heard the song Brandy ;-)

But I do agree with the principle of your differentiation, I would broaden it to include denial as well as destruction.  I can think of a few easy ways to use the passion.  The love of his life has strong ties to a village hundreds of miles from the coast...make him choose.  He want's to see the world...is he going to be satisfied just seeing the coast?  Pit his passion against his drive and make him choose.  Its not the most unique passion, but its workable...in a campaign that features the sea prominently.

However, I have come to concur with the widely held Forge sentiment that creating a really cool character in a vacuum is a great excersize in "how do the rules work" but a poor way to create a character.  Ideally before creating a character for actual use in a game it would be created with input from all of the other players and the GM.  I can easily envision showing up to the game with this great character concept about seeing the world from the prow of a fast ship only to discover the game is set in a little run of the mill barony in the middle of Stahl.

[Reprisal]

Yeah, it's pretty much true what you're saying about creating a character in a vacuum, and I know how dumb it can be for a player to do without consulting his/her Seneschal, but still, the character was pretty much meant to test out the rules.  Plus, I didn't put much into the Spiritual Attributes, and having read Ron Edwards' excellent post, I should know how important they are... hehe, live and learn.

Anyway, I'm glad I "got it" now.  Time to start thinking of a campaign...

[Jaif]

The word passion can cover many things.  Your character could have a passion for sweets, or if he wanted to be a true munchkin a passion for fighting.

That's why I try to be tight with those rules.  In fact, I was only allowing people until one player of mine wanted loyalty to the throne, which fit well.

As for "denial", now that it's morning I can think of two things:

1) The object of your passion should be able to request things from you.

2) The object of your passion can be destroyed.

-Jeff