Ruin Consequences in Hither Lands

[vgunn]

I am working through the mechanics for Hither Lands: Roleplaying in Middle-earth. This version is very much different from the original design, in part due to all of the indie games which have caught my eye over the last year or so. It is a much more narrative approach and for Conflicts the consequences are more abstract.

Here is a brief rundown:

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Conflict: In Hither Lands, Conflict is not merely a series of die rolls; rather the Narrator and players describe the events in detail to further the story.

Abstract Design: Epic moments of strife and struggle are often accentuated in Middle-earth. Conflict in Hither Lands is not broken down into rounds that are presented as standard fare in many other roleplaying games. Instead, the Conflict here uses a progressive, narrative model to act out the unfolding event.

A Three-act Model: Conflicts can be narrated to take place over the span of a few moments or even several days—as in Aragorn, Gimli and Legolas’ relentless pursuit of a band of Uruk-hai across the plains of Rohan—regardless both are similarly resolved in Hither Lands. Conflict is often used to represent actual fighting, but this system can be used to narrate any Conflict between two or more opponents—from the art of seduction, to a game of riddles. The three-act model of narrative Conflict begins with Introduction, followed by the Confrontation, and finally comes to an end with the Resolution.

Introduction: Setting the stage and establishing the opening moments of the Conflict is the Introduction. It has three crucial components: Effort, Intent and Circumstance. Initiative in Hither Lands is different from most other typical roleplaying games.

Effort — using their Courage points, players will determine how much Effort their character will spend in the Conflict. It is a risk/reward type of mechanic with the one who is willing to spend more being allowed to declare first Intent and React last (along with regaining some Courage points).

Intent — establishes the final Consequences for the Conflict.

Circumstance — the Narrator finishes the Introduction by declaring any situational modifiers which are applied to either specific characters or ones to all the participants. It is here that the Narrator or player can also call upon a character’s Road.

Confrontation: The loser of Effort begins the Confrontation, the next step of the Conflict, by narrating an action—this is called an Act. This is a single task or short series of closely related actions. The Conflict then passes to winner of Effort, who will then respond with their own Act. There are three Acts for each Player in the Confrontation of a Conflict, with Character who was the winner of Effort getting to react last. Both the Narrator and players are encouraged to creative, vividly relating their character’s actions in the Conflict, should he be attacking a Troll or impressing tavern-folk with a song. In a Confrontation, the Narrator will judge each Act by the player and will assign to it a Narrative Modifier, as mentioned previously under Circumstance, of -3 to +3 (depending on effort).

That said, there are times when a player is not up to the linguistic intentions of the game. He has, as an alternate to the Narrator’s judging the value of his own Acts, the option to simply spend one point of Courage activating a Boon to give a 1-point bonus, or by spending one point of Courage to automatically invoke a Lore Keyword and receive a 2-point bonus.It should be noted that Foes which are controlled by the Narrator in a Conflict are not given narrative bonuses, though each can have a preset modifier (positive or negative) depending on the circumstances of the Conflict.

Resolution: Once all the Acts in the Confrontation have been concluded, each player tallies their cumulative Narrative Modifiers (and/or other possible options) and moves on to the Resolution. Players will add the cumulative of all Circumstantial Narrative Modifiers for the Conflict and roll a twelve-sided die (d12).  The character with both the highest adjusted margin (after making a roll and then subtracting the opponent’s roll from the character’s, and calculating the margin of success on the difference) has won a Victory in the Conflict, while the other is Defeated—and suffers the Consequences established in the Introduction. If a character wins by more than three margins, the Defeat is considered spectacular and the Courage points of the Defeated used in his Effort are rewarded to the victorious player (in addition to the loser suffering Consequences). In the event of a tie—the Conflict it is considered a stalemate. Doom points may be used to alter the Margins of Success.

Victory and Defeat: As the saying goes, “to the victor go the spoils”. Consequences established in the Introduction of the Conflict should be assigned by the Narrator appropriate to the situation, and linked to the Legend, Lore and Consequences of the two combatants. Defeats are nominally divided into three categories and are the conditions representing the degrees to which the loss can affect a character. Based on the Margin of Success (as described earlier in the quick start rules), these are always listed from least to most injurious. A lower penalty for Defeat usually involves some sort of temporary incapacitation. More injurious penalties may be given a numerical rating involving temporary or permanent loss of an Aspect. Possible additional Defeats include: maiming, loss of Courage, acquisition of a new Curse, loss of a Lore Keyword, acquisition a new Bane, loss of a Boon, a change in Doom, or Ruin.

Much to Ruin: Danger comes in many forms; three such are defined as Ruin and are covered in detail (though other affects may come as well in Defeat). In certain Conflicts when a Character is Defeated they may suffer Corruption, Harm and/or Taint. When a character has suffered one or more points in Corruption, Harm or Taint, their Aspect score will be lower in any Conflict until the points are restored. Example, Frodo Baggins has a Fëa score of 4 but has been burdened with 2 points of Corruption, so in actions involving Fëa his score is only a 2.

Corruption    —   is an effect from foul deeds or wicked influences (may be temporary or permanent).
Harm      —   are the wounds suffered by a Companion (Healing occurs in days, weeks, or months).
Taint      —   is an affliction caused from delving into a subject too deeply.

Corruption acts to weaken a Character’s Fëa (spirit) and with this burden they begin to fall into Shadow. Every point of Corruption reduces the current Fëa Aspect score. If the amount Corruption is one point greater than a character’s Fëa then they are consumed by Shadow and fall under the dominion of the Dark Lord forever and are lost from further play.

Harm is the physical wounds that a character will take in a Defeat. Harm affects a character’s Hroä (body) Aspect score. For every point of Harm the character’s current Hroä is either temporarily or permanently lost. Should a character suffer Harm one point greater than their Hroä score they are mortally wounded with no recovery possible.

Taint in some ways is similar to Corruption, yet it affects a character’s Inítä (mind) Aspect score.  Taint can be used to measure the sanity, fears and obsessions a character. For every point of Taint a character’s current Inítä Score is reduced. If the Taint becomes is one point greater than a character’s Inítä Score they will become so disordered (or enamored) by something that the outside world is no longer of any interest.

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There have been some who have suggested that each type of opponent should have specific combat consequences. To account for the differences in fighting a Goblin or a Troll. But I'm not sure I want to have a laundry-list of damage. But do you need to have a set mechanical effects for losing a conflict? If not it does seem to be very dependent on the Narrator making some kind of judgement call. Should each Foe have a Ruin value -- how much damage they do as a  consequence of being defeated by them? For example a group of Orcs could collectively have a Ruin of Harm 1 - if you Fail the conflict your Hroa goes down by 1, if you lose by a Mishap, the value is doubled, if it's by a Disaster, it's tripled. That would also mean you could have a Nazgul with Ruin of Harm 3/Corruption 3, which reflects it's physical and spiritual dominance. You could also have a narrative consequence that depends on what you did, i.e. you decided to rush the orcs with your spear and skewer them, so a narrative consequence of  failure could be a broken spear or something similar. I think in  this case the reward remains clear - if you win, you overcome the conflict in the story and suffer no effects, if you fail you take mechanical 'damage' and suffer the consequences, as well as any long-term affect on the way the story progresses.

Or would this be a better route?

In a Conflict the defeated character will lose Aspect (mind, body, spirit) points equal to the amount of Courage spent in the Confrontation. Example: Alendir has spent 3 points of Courage in the fight, but still
loses. The Narrator indicates which Aspects are lowered. The 3 points can be taken from one Aspect or divided out. This maintains the risk/reward element of the Conflict. It also places a natural scaling of damage by Foes, since a player is likely to spend less points of Courage fighting a Goblin than when facing a Troll.

Perhaps a SCOPE level is a way to go? For instance, make a drama/tension scale of 1-12 (with 12 being highest). For every 3 points there is one point of Scope reflecting the 'epic stage' of the Conflict. The higher the Scope the more dangerous it makes a minion.

I would like to get some of your thoughts.

Thanks in advance!

[vgunn]

On the use of Courage:

The winner of a Conflict does get back Courage points, while the loser does not.

Marginal Success = 1 Courage Point is given
Full Success = 2 Courage Points are given
Critical Success = 3 Courage Points are given

Points of valour in Hither Lands are called Courage, and are used by characters in initiative bids versus opponents in a conflict. A point of Courage can also used to give a simple 1-point bonus in a Conflict when a player chooses to forego any potential Narrative Modifiers. A player can also activate Boon with a Courage point, and then decide to take a simple 2-point bonus or narrate the action for a possible 3-point bonus. Courage points can also be used to remove the effects of Corruption, Harm, or Taint on a character. The number of initial Courage points is determined by race (or culture) and has been discussed earlier in the quick start rules. Under most circumstances, Courage points are completely refreshed after each session of play.

Now for getting the other's Courage Points. I have two thoughts. With 4+ margins of success the winner gets what the loser spent in Courage point for the Effort. Or I can give 1 point for each additional margin beyond 3 (4 margins = 4 Courage Points [3 from his own and 1 from the loser], 5 margins = 5 Courage Points [3 from his own and 2 from the loser], 6 margins = 6 points [ 3 from his own and 3 from the loser] and so on. I'm leaning toward the latter as it seems to scale easy.

Here is another thought to making the winner of Effort and going last in the Confrontation more of an advantage. How about about spending a point of Courage to counter/cancel the opponent's Act or something to that effect?

[Simon C]

Your use of the word "scope" made me think of the way Trollbabe uses the scale of the conflict to decide what is possible, and what the consequences are.  I can see this mapping very well onto a LotR game.  Consider the difference between "the Hobbit" and the trilogy.  It's the same characters, but the scope is completely different, and so the consequences of conflict get much greater.  So maybe the scope is something the players decide on before the start of the game (it can only go up, never down) and this value determines the outcome?  It strikes me that it doesn't matter so much whether it's a troll or an orc you're fighting, so much as whether you're fighting to save your village or to save the world.  The trolls in "the Hobbit" are presented as a pretty comical, trivial threat, compared to trolls in LotR.  I think it would be neat to reflect this in your game.

I really like the thematic elements you're using.  "Ruin" is really evocative for me, and the use of elvish really makes it feel like an LotR game.  It's really exciting to me to think of a conflict where my character's "fea" is on the line.  Perhaps you could consider letting the players choose what they're staking?  You could let them stake things that are really unique to their characters.  Consider that many of the fights in fellowship really damage the Hobbit's innocence more than their bodies, while Boromir is taking hits to his integrity, as he loses faith in their ability to win, and decides that using the ring is their only hope. 

It seems like you could have really thematic play by letting each player decide what their unique "damage" stat will be.  So, at character creation, the player chooses a descriptor for their damage stat, which is staked in all conflicts.  So I could decide that my character will lose his "honour" as he starts to lose, and becomes more willing to sacrifice his morals, while another character could lose "faith", and another could lose "hope". I think it would be a good idea to couple this with the "ruin" stats you've already got.

It sounds like you're on track to really do an LotR game well, and I look forward to seeing where this goes.

[vgunn]

Simon,

Thank you very much for the response.

I think that 'stakes' is cover in a character's Road -- which I did not describe in the previous posts. Here it is:

Road

A Player will choose three ‘matters of the heart’—things that have, over the course of a character’s life, come to define them. It is called the Road, and can be convictions, beliefs, faith, passions, standards or tenets. In Hither Lands it represents a character’s free will; choices which are the bonds of this unique gift. These ideals act to serve as a sort of code for the broad conduct of a character. 

On the character sheet a Player should write down a short, descriptive phrase for each of the three values. This descriptor is set within quotes and should come from the literary works of Middle-earth or a notable line from the film versions of the Lord of the Rings. The Narrator will approve a Player’s quote to ensure it is applicable to the story. The quote can be about a person, place, thing or even an idea. To illustrate, let’s use Frodo Baggins as an example, just prior to the Breaking of the Fellowship:

“For the Shire!” is a sense of honour for Frodo that has come to a standard for his behavior. Frodo has been given council from Galadriel, “To be a Ring-bearer is to be alone.” A duty through which he will find a spirit of commitment, dedication and determination to carry him to the end. Frodo has long held an ardour for his benefactor, “I miss Bilbo.” And he hopes very much one day to see him again.

In the context of play, these three defining characteristics can come to dictate the outcome of an event by giving the character a positive or negative modifier that is set during the Introduction of a Conflict. This may be initiated by the Narrator (with a range of +3 to -3) or it can be ‘willed’ as a compelling action by the player. There are a number of different options that a player can opt for when willing a compelling action, such as: no cost for using Courage points in the Conflict, increasing the Margin of Success, or applying a direct, specific Consequence on an opponent and so on.

In Defeat the Consequences could include a change in the Road for a character. So in a way, I think the game does try to include unique qualities that come to be different in each individual.

I'd like to get your thoughts on this.

Also if you like, I'd be glad to send you the pdf. of the Quick Start Rules. Just send me a PM with your email.

Thanks again!