Shooting the Moon: Quick Rules Question

[Brand_Robins]

Heya Em,

So I'm finally going to be playing Shooting the Moon, and I had one quick question. When you are in a suitor turn and are the Active Player and you've just lost do you

a) Take the trait the Opposition gave you instantly, before Second Pool
b) Take the trait at the end of the scene, regardless of what happens with Second Pool
c) Take the trait only if you Lose (or don't take) Second Pool
d) Something else that I'm missing?

I guess what I'm asking could also be said as "if you accept the 4 dice from the Opponent in Second Pool, are you betting double or nothing?"

Which also reminds me of a second question. It seems assumed that the Active Player and Beloved will be working together in a scene, but doesn't explicitly state that they must be. Should they do so, or is it possible for the Beloved to actually work against the Active Player? If so, what does that do to agreement issues around the second pool?

[Emily Care]

Great questions, Brand.

So I'm finally going to be playing Shooting the Moon, and I had one quick question. When you are in a suitor turn and are the Active Player and you've just lost do you

a) Take the trait the Opposition gave you instantly, before Second Pool
b) Take the trait at the end of the scene, regardless of what happens with Second Pool
c) Take the trait only if you Lose (or don't take) Second Pool
d) Something else that I'm missing?

The Active player doesn't get the trait for losing until after the Second Pool has been resolved and has officially lost the turn.  There is a second trait that may be taken if the Active and Beloved Players take the suggestion given by the opponent. This trait does get assigned immediately.

I've found that people usuallly don't think of the losing trait up front when they introduce the Opposition--it just get's made up and assigned at the end if the Active player loses--and I think that's a fine way to go about it. It's actually easier then, since the scene has happened and you have more to work with at that point.

I guess what I'm asking could also be said as "if you accept the 4 dice from the Opponent in Second Pool, are you betting double or nothing?"

Let me make sure I've got your question (and my answer) straight here.  There are two traits you can get in a turn as the Active player: the one for losing the turn, and the one for taking the +4 dice suggestion by the opponent.  As I said up above, the one for Losing you don't get until the end and then only if you've lost the turn, and the one for the suggestion you keep even if you win the turn.

Does that make sense?

Which also reminds me of a second question. It seems assumed that the Active Player and Beloved will be working together in a scene, but doesn't explicitly state that they must be. Should they do so, or is it possible for the Beloved to actually work against the Active Player? If so, what does that do to agreement issues around the second pool?

The Active Player and the Beloved's player are working together to win the scene. If they win, they both get the payoff, if they lose, neither does. However, there are some difference of motivation. The Beloved's player is working toward the Beloved gaining their Dream, while the Active Player wants to move their character toward the Prize.

Also, there are two ways to play:

hardcore-style:  in which it only takes one of the pair to accept the Opponent's suggestion for 4 dice, which means that the Beloved's Player may end up skewering the Active Player with some egregious or disadvantageous happenings in order to get those dice. 

happy-friendly-style: in which the Active player and the Beloved's player have to agree, so they might end up going with a less damaging suggestion of their own instead which gives them 3 points.

I didn't talk much in the text about what happens if you don't do the Second Pool because I guess I couldn't imagine folks wanting to do that. But it's true, someone might not. I'll have to address it in revisions. Good point!

So, all this does mean that the Beloved's player may work against the Active Player. That is totally how the game is supposed to work. There are supposed to be shifting alliances and cross-awarding of adversity by your sometime ally. We played a game at Dreamation in which the two Suitors acted together (somewhat) to ruin the chances of another (non-player-character) suitor that was introduced by the Beloved's player during the Beloved Turn. We turned and knifed eachother again very quickly, but it was great to see that short truce emerge. 

A principal I'm not sure if I talked about this enough in the text, though, is that you shouldn't introduce elements that explicitly cut a Suitor out of the running for the Prize.  Unless the player feels they can work it in somehow. But we nixed a suggestion to make my and Kat Miller's character barren when the Dream of the Beloved was to have a son, since it would a) be difficult to establish within the frame of the game and b) took our character out of the running.  The bad stuff ends should up being really good story fodder, rather than just hosing the other player.  It should make its life more interesting, not deprotagonize the player.

Also, a nice discovery from this weekend's game is that playing the game with two people running each of the characters is not only perfectly workable and fun, but really adds to it, since then you have another person to bounce things off of, and 6 people's worth of ideas about the story.  Highly recommended.

I'm glad you're going to get to play! Let me know if you have any other questions. Also, I'll write up the game from this weekend and give some of my thoughts and feedback on other rules issues.

all the best,
Emily

[Brand_Robins]

Cool, I think you covered all my questions.

Thanks Em.