The Worlds in My Head

[vertigo25]

I've had this idea for awhile to make some source books for campaign settings and adventures with the intention of not using any particular rules system; generic world books, if you will. I would include notes and tips for integrating certain things into some of the more popular systems and would maintain an online resource of "conversion" to even more systems (maybe wiki-based).

My question is whether there are things like this in existence. I love the GURPS 3rd Edition world books, and have quite often used them for other systems (as I'm sure many of you have, too), but a recent trip to the game store found nothing that wasn't specifically written for a particular system (and most often, d20 (which I hate)).

Also, what are some of your favorite world books (even designed for particular systems)? What features and what kind of information do you like in a source book?

[Mike Sugarbaker]

Setting books that don't either come with rules or come made for a set of rules tend to be unpopular. That's no reason not to do one anyway, as long as you understand that A) making a commercial product of it is probably non-viable, and B) the fun you have making the book may end up being the lonely kind of fun.

I'm not entirely sure why setting books tend to be unpopular, but it has something to do with some or all of the following points: 1) people have a tendency to jump right from playing in the world that came with their roleplaying rules to making up a world of their own. 2) Most setting books in RPG history aren't written as well as, say, a good SF novel, which can serve the same purpose. 3) People perceive "having" to make up their own "crunchy bits" as too much work (the same people have a tendency to go off half-cocked and design their own fantasy-heartbreaker systems at the slightest provocation, but whatever).

All that said, I think there's a real future in less conventional ways of presenting fictional worlds. Look to Wiki games like Lexicon and to the practice of alternate reality gaming for some inspiration.

[Mike Sugarbaker]

Oh, uh, and welcome to the Forge!

[vertigo25]

Thanks, Mike.

Good food for thought.

My original thinking was that it's all "reinventing the wheel," and that by giving enough detail, players could easily adapt the worlds to their favorite system. Later, I got to thinking about including a "core rules" version of a system I've been working on (on and off) for several years. I've also considered designing it around an existing open universal system such as Fudge, Omni System, Active Exploits, or (cringe) D20. I've also considered approaching the publishers of games I like who have more control of their systems (GURPS, Burnng Wheel, or Primetime Adventures for example) about writing the books with their games in mind.

However, there are several debates going on in my head as to which course to take.

The main thing going through my head is that as I've been lurking here for awhile and going through the articles and defunct design forums, I'm realizing how a well designed game can add to the experience of a certain genre; particularly if that genre is fairly unique (as is the first book I'm working on). By designing particular aspects of game yourself, you can bring a bounty of flavor to the actual play. Whereas with a generic system, you're left with merely making suggestions as to how to heighten a certain aspect of a genre (am I making sense here?). To put it more simply, I definitely understand that "universal" systems only make games playable; they add no value to any particular genre.

So... I don't know. I'm now leaning towards making a flexible, rules-light system to go with the settings. Maybe a core system which adds flavor in each book; maybe a unique system designed specifically for each world. My only reasons for pause are my being lazy, inexperienced, and somewhat afraid of rejection

Last night I was offered some much appreciated help in development and playtesting, by a good friend who definitely knows his stuff. I've also seen the quality feedback that the Forge denizens can offer. So, maybe developing a system would not be as intimidating as I imagine it to be. Maybe I could do this, *and* keep the idea of having online guides for adapting it to people's favorite systems.

Kind of weird, though. I never particularly wanted to be a "game developer" as much as I loved developing *for* games.

[Mike Sugarbaker]

I think having a core system can be a good approach too, if it's the right core system: namely, one that adapts to stories and world using language rather than numbers. I'm tempted to recommend that you look at the Solar System and/or FATE, both of which are freely licensed and give you a little more to work with in this department than straight Fudge or whatnot. Truthfully, though, FATE and Solar aren't the right tool for every job. If you just use them straight, you get a very distinctive feel from each, so you'll likely have some design work to do to adapt them to a different mood.

Then again, that's true no matter what, and both FATE and Solar are hugely popular for good reasons. So yeah, take a look.

[pells]

First of all, welcome to the forge. Let me give you my two cents on this matter. Well, I'm not an established author or game publisher (well, at least, not yet) and I came here to the forge about a year and a half ago, with the same type of project as you (setting and plots, in my case, with no system). This site has been quite helpful, so let me tell me a couple of things I've learned (or that people make me made things about) and the decision I took.
Just a quick note : I'm finished with design process of mt project. I know what it will be, what I'll be trying to sell. Now, I haven't published yet, so I don't know if I've made the right choices. But I still think some of the questions were correct.

I tend to agree with Mike's analysis.
- This won't sell easily. There are a lot of settings out there, and they don't sell that well, and they are systems related. So, yours has to be very good, and it needs to be different (by different, I don't mean "this cool race" or "this cool place"). I'll come to that in a moment.
- This will be a lot of work. Be ready for a long, long ride, for which, at some point, you'll be discouraged. So, start doing this because you have fun, because you like doing it.

But, why do systemless setting don't sell ? Mike's points are classic and need a little extra attention.

1) people have a tendency to jump right from playing in the world that came with their roleplaying rules to making up a world of their own.

Designing a setting and plots is fun. People love it. Designing a coherent, logical setting, or designing a complete coherent plot, that would give a lot of freedom (by that, I mean non linear) to the PCs is another matter. So, one of your first question should be : what will people be buying ?
I've chosen not to provide details. In my case, people will be buying a backbone, upon which they can create, add their own things, do the fun stuff they like, selling the hard part.

2) Most setting books in RPG history aren't written as well as, say, a good SF novel, which can serve the same purpose.

Yeah and that's a big problem : badly written, dull to read. Settings are the worse. Books are fun, but they need adaptation as they are not written for rpgs.
I do think (and this is strictly my opinion), that the design of setting/plots for the rpg hasn't change in the past 25 years. It's still the same. So, when I said different earlier, I meant different in the design, in the presentation. How can you come up with something useful but still fun to read ?

3) People perceive "having" to make up their own "crunchy bits" as too much work (the same people have a tendency to go off half-cocked and design their own fantasy-heartbreaker systems at the slightest provocation, but whatever).

Yeah, that's true. That leads me to :

The system problem
You need some. No system is not an option. Here's how I see it : what's your trade ? Systems ? No. But you'll need them. People won't be buying your product for a system, but they might not buy it because it has no system. And think about it : you'll be spending thousand of hours on your setting, what is a little bit more to put one (or more) system behind ? For one thing, you don't want each and every one of your customers to do the job on his own.

Now, which system ? In my case, I was aiming at no system because I didn't want to write for a specific system, I didn't want to write with a hand tied behind my back, restricted in my creativity because of it. So, I don't write for a specific system, but I'll put three systems to describe what I've done : D20, solar (TSOY) and Fudge, each representing an archetype of GNS, each with a licence I can use. And about your own system, don't do it. It's a complete different task, and the time you'll spent on it, you won't be spending it on your setting. It might always come later anyway.

A last note : people don't believe in that kind of product. Theyll tell you not to do it. But I say give a try, do it. Do it because you want to write (and you will do a lot of it). And people will tell you to write a novel instead. In my case, I'm writing something between a novel, a comic and a scenario (it's not clear what exactly I'm doing), something meant for the rpg (or so I think) and it's a lot of fun. Much more fun that writing a novel. I want to write and I'm writing exactly what I love. Will it sell ? I don't know, but it would have been fun to produce !!!
And write your setting differently. Having some cool races is not enough, I can't say it more.

[Conteur]

I need to point my opinion there because I wanted to do the same!
White-wolf did it and I hated it. I have 120 White-Wolf books in my library and almost none are useful once you have read them. Good to read but dull to buy...
D20 system has a more good view of it. Every book contain new rules, new spells, new prestige class...You must open everyone of them almost once per week. That is more useful and commercial. In PDF format, you're gonna scrape your eyes off someday so buy it...
Maybe if you're ideas comes with great maps in 4D, that would be a little more interresting for profit...Something that is hard to print or too beautiful to print cheaply...