city design

[signoftheserpent]

I need some advice with how to layout and design a modernish, comicbookesque/city of tomorrow sort of noir city setting (somewhere between the setting for Nevermen, Astro City, Mega City 1, New York and Chicago ). I've come up with a bunch of boroughs and distrcits, but i'm not sure how to lay it out and whether or not masses of indepth maps would be needed.

[andrew_kenrick]

My personal preference is to provide enough information to give players a feel for the city, but not too much that you risk overwhelming them, or encroach on their own creative space. With that in mind, I'd err on the side of not too many maps.

But it really depends on what you want them to do with the city, and what you envisage them using the maps for. Will there be lots of in depth planning of raids with the players poring over a map to strategise? If so, then detailed maps are the way to go. But if they're just to add flavour and a sense of scale and size of the city, then you don't need much, and the style of the map might be more important than its content then anyway.

Was that what you were after SotS?

[signoftheserpent]

the city (tomorrow city) is the setting and so there is a need for a layout; my problem is that i don't know how to realistically layout a city in anything other than a way that looks good to me. I'm not sure that's enough.

[Caesar_X]

Unless your game is miniatures-based and the players really need to know how many blocks it is from the bar to the police station, I think you might be better off squinting your eyes a bit and just doing a general layout of the city.  Draw an outline around it, break it into several boroughs and grab a few colored pencils to fill them in.  Maybe add a few interesting landmarks and you have something that the players can refer to during the game.  You can talk to which areas have the big money and influence and which are the crowded utopia-busting slums.

I agree with Andrew that the players should be left some creative space and not spoon-fed everything.  Realism is overrated when it comes to gaming:)

Chris

[andrew_kenrick]

the city (tomorrow city) is the setting and so there is a need for a layout; my problem is that i don't know how to realistically layout a city in anything other than a way that looks good to me. I'm not sure that's enough.

Enough for what? If you can decide what you want the maps to be used for, then maybe you can decide how much detail you want to go in for.

As for physical constraints for layout - well, it IS the city of the future, so there's no real need for it to stick to any sort of real world engineering constraints. Why not lay it out thematically, so here you might have the clean and wealthy area, here the dirty poor area, here the spaceport and it's alien immigrants and so on. So rather than obscure geographical or political areas, it's more thematic - players can grasp onto it a lot easier that way, in my experience.

[signoftheserpent]

Ok, what sort of regions and districts should such a city have?

[TroyLovesRPG]

Hello,

Donning the hat of a city planner is a big task even for a fictional setting. I agree with andrew_kenrick in that theme is important to partition your city into areas that have story-related significance. Otherwise, if the city is homogenous then there is no reason to explore it. I do like the use of political maps as references during in-game conversations. Physical maps work great when you have transportation limitations, strategic concerns or geographic interests.

Shadowrun and Cyberpunk often have maps combining political references with thematic areas. Detailed city blocks are given when exact location is important to a scene. Of course, the occasional shoot-out, foot-chase or covert mission can require specific maps.

Your tomorrow city holds different challenges depending on the game you are creating. Look at the kind of story you want to tell about the city. Examples:
A hopeless city converted to a penal colony. Manhattan in Escape from New York.
Extrapolation of technology, urban decay and social divergence in a current city. Newark, NJ from Johnny Mnemonic.
Fictionalized evolution of a current city with advanced technology and alien contact. New York gets bigger and weirder in the Fifth Element.
Walled city in a devastated world. Mega City One with all its levels and block wars.
A utopian society with a big secret. The City from Logan's Run.
Super heroes and super villains in a contemporary city with some futuristic notions. Metropolis from the world of Superman.
Social barriers, funky technology and revolution in a sprawling city-state. Metropolis from the movie by Fritz Lang.
Paranoia, mutants, gritty-tech and Egyptian gods. New City has a pyramid floating above it.

Each of the above cities could be detailed in political, geographic, functional, cultural and thematic ways. However, most maps would be a waste of time, as the individual stories don't require the information. In each of those stories, the characters and conflicts hold the greatest concern with the city as a prop for the action to take place. New York City, Los Angeles, San Francisco, Chicago and Tokyo seem to be the basis for many future cities in fiction. This works but the cities are the same: tall buildings, wonderful landmarks, ethnic "towns", convenient piers and kick-ass nightlife.

Before creating the city tell us more about the future of the world where this city is built. Is it on Earth? What technological advances are there? Does society resemble our own? Are there more corporate, military or bureaucratic presences? Are there aliens? Are racial and cultural diversity spread out or concentrated? Is the city clean, gritty or a combination? Are there social castes? Is wealth a priority? What's the crime level? Is the city built on the remains of older cities? What are the transportation options?

Troy

[signoftheserpent]

the premise of the game is largely based on the Nevermen comic. The players are similar: they are 'shadowmen', inscrutable and incorruptible guardians of the city above and beyond the law and an authority in and of themselves (IE they are law abiding, but not actually legitimised or sanctioned). Shadowmen do not have superpowers as such, and the game doesn't revolve around them per se; there is also no magic or genuine mysticism. They are mysterious agents who use technology and science in the vein of the Nevermen, or Batman et. all. They are human, though there may well be more to them in the vein of a metaplotesque twist to give the players more depth and drama to work with - that, for now, is not important.
As such the game is centred in the fictional locale of Tomorrow City at a time 'after the war'; what war (though atomic in nature) and exactly when are not precisely disclosed. There are many setting elements like this and all are deliberately vague. These are mainly elements of the world outside of the city which is beyond the scope of the game and referenced at best only to create a context. For example, the city exists within the 'Union' - IE America by any other name (though only implicitly; that's the point). It is located on the edge of the Atlantic Ocean and near an Evergladesesque swamp and is near the border of the Southern Union (making it a prime drugrunning route). Beyond lies the Red Republic, a state based around communist stereotypes, whose agents are among the many antagonists players can face (shadowy agents of subversion and moral corruption).
The city is ostensibly an American city based around a noir/pulp/art deco feel; it plays on those stereotypes to create the genre the game manipulates - just as the Nevermen plays on similar ideas. Thus it needs all the usual elements, such as a waterfront region rife with smuggling and midnight corpse dumping (that's an easy one). As another example of the 'alternate' nature of the setting, every noir city has a chinatown, Tomorrow City instead has Little Cairo where migrants and immigrants from Luxor (a country based around Egypt) live, complete with triad analogs called the Jackals.
The setting is also SF, tomorrow city also contains elements of a 'city of the future' as well; it has its own internet analog called the Exchange and has an 'advanced' monorail network as well. Essentially all those funky tropes and ideas fit into this timeless reality (floating cars, weird science).
So for this design to work it demands more than just GM fiat; I don't think it's really acceptable or enough to create such a game and such a setting without knowing enough about the city. Enough is more than just a few details and a few key places. You would need at least a basic map, even if you don't need to name every single street and number every house (and i don't intend to).

[TroyLovesRPG]

Hello,

If its based on a comic book and you want to create those kinds of conflicts then duplicate the types of locations. If your city is truly the focus of the game then treat your city as if it is a living thing. Create locations, pathways and hubs that are metaphors for every part of a complex organism. Develop rules that govern the way the parts interact with each other and the inhabitants of it. That may give you insight into how characters and NPCS can affect the city, and how the city affects the inhabitants.

Your description of the city is extremely generic. That in itself should make it very easy for you to make a city. Maybe the task is to look at how each location in your city relates to the others on different levels, both tangible and abstract.

Each location is mapped on a tree showing its name and colorful text with proximity and path between locations. Each location has vital information that directly helps or hinders those who enter it. As a guardian it would be important to know the location's representatives, schedule of events, notable figures, unofficial boss, law enforcement, crime, transportation, wealth, culture, resources, landmarks, danger areas, informants, safe houses and allies. This could get very complicated as the locations and all its parts actually affect other locations. There may be covert or visible wars between locations and the factions within. Also, some groups may have allied themselves unexpectedly.

Regardless of how you want the city to look, the game will determine how the city reinforces the story. If you start with the city design I think you'll spend a lot of time creating something sophisticated, yet you won't know what to do with it.

Troy

[Sentience]

Maybe I'm just shallow-minded, but I feel like you're looking for a less-metaphorical answer to "What kinds of areas should the city have in it?"

I'm currently in the middle of creating a futuristic city myself, so I may have a few suggestions that could help. Consider the kinds of areas that are in modern day cities.

I think andrew had the right idea...

You have high-class, wealthy areas that are generally clean, and tidy, and well secured. The shops and restaurants tend to be expensive and garish, and the area is probably well policed and secured.

Then you have middle-class areas, and these might be difficult to adorn with colorful text. I found it easy to explain high-class posh areas, and easy to explain the slums, but I found it quite hard to explain the element of mediocrity. Either way, these areas are usually semi-clean and semi-wealthy.

Next, you have the low-class slum areas. Crime is a big part of these areas, and they're usually occupied by a myriad of criminal organizations and gangs. The local government of these places tend to be corrupt and lazy. This is probably gunna be the kind of place where you shadowmen truly shine.

Then you've got the business district. Usually a downtown area with lots of skyscrapers and tall buildings.

Finally, you might have some industrial areas full of factories and stockyards.

Just remember that these types of areas are rather generic and can be boring. Try to add flavor to the areas and make them unique.

[Thenomain]

Thinking in mind of what Sentience just said, if you're having trouble getting an idea of what kinds of areas cause what kinds of concequences, play a few games of Sim City.  (But play it because you want to.)  Pick up comic books like "Supermarket" or an old copy of Cyberpunk 2020's "Night City" or read the first third of either "Snow Crasg" or "Diamond Age".  A lot of people have thought about the physical implications of social space, and visa-versa, which is the first thing I think of when think of a near-futuristic city.

You can also go the route of Star Wars and similar, where each city (or planet or, reminded by Battlestar Galactica, starship) has a specific purpose, or harsly subdivide the city with a similar purpose with walls and gates between them.