Kewl books worth it?

[Seth M. Drebitko]

Aside from a lulu pod version I was thinking of creating a line of hand made books with a couple things in mind.

1. The "cheap ass effect" in which a book could be quickly produced in a quality, yet not so "sexy look", but fetch a lower cost.

2. I could make "Kewl Editions" produced from uncommon materials or unique binding methods, but at a higher cost.

Now I see the following as pros and cons:

Cons

-This method would give the look of a less than professional appearance.
-Time would be taken up creating the books.
-Non-uniform appearance of the Cheap Ass addition will put some people off (despite the fact that thats why it's the cheap ass addition)

Pros

-Not many of us come across highly professional to begin with (thats what a day job is for -_^)
-The method used while being a high quality (in the utilitarian approach) would also be able to rapidly be produced.
-The personal feeling towards the product is created given it's non-uniform appearance compared to the others in it's product line (and hand signed, and numbered cover)
-Clients still have access to more standard paper back options.
-The addition of a Kewl Edition of each book allows the client to own something completely unique on their book shelf.

So I guess my question is what thoughts do you have positive or negative as to the success of this idea? I kind of like it for the ability to create a little niche for myself as far as product options for people, but am very interested in any ideas to be added or taken away from my own.

[GregStolze]

One question would be -- is it tonally appropriate for your game?
-G.

[Seth M. Drebitko]

As far as the cheap books go it would fit the relaxed business model I am looking towards, once enough support is gained I would look to be able to do larger print runs and charge the same cost. As far as the Kewl Editions they would be tailored to the contents. For example my core system is Gears and Cogs (GaC) and so I want to bind a book using hinges bolts and sheet metal, along with an engraving machine. All of those things I could get as my family owns a construction company and buys in bulk. The edges would be covered with something so as to prevent injury. I think and some o my friends agreed that it would be very unique to put out a game like that and like I said before I could potentially do it economically because my family orders large amounts of these goods any way.

regards, Seth

[Ron Edwards]

Hi Seth,

People respond positively to elegant and appropriate physical design for a game. They respond positively to those things whether it's handmade, factory-made, cheap, expensive, colorful, black-and-white, and so on and so forth. The "good look" of a product is 100% independent of all those things, and it can't be faked.

Side note: yes, people also respond positively to clear investment on a publisher's part, the same way they respond positively to a grossly expensive and wasteful car that doesn't even look good or run very well. "Size matters" too. But based on all the independent publishing I've seen over the last eight years, this effect is way, way overrated in the role-playing store culture. Once one stops thinking in terms of that culture, this effect dries up and almost completely blows away.

Back to the main point of your proposal - it seems perfectly reasonable that given (a) a good game and (b) as Greg points out, a reason for there to be two versions, then sure! Try it out and see how it goes. It will depend largely on the elegance and appropriateness that I mentioned above.

Two examples.

1. I own a paperback copy and a hardbound, special-order-only copy of HeroQuest. The paperback one is for travel and for play in general. The hardbound one is my celebration of my own Hero Wars (previous version of HeroQuest) game, inscribed with the Gloranthan rune of my choice which became central to that game, and it also expresses my desire for Greg Stafford to be successful with his game, a direct investment on my part.

People who play in the Glorantha setting with whatever system have a tendency to care very greatly about it. The hardbound special offer was perfectly directed toward us, because we could do both those things: celebrate the feature (rune) which meant the most to us individually, and participate in the community that centers around Greg's leadership and creativity in the hobby for so many years.

2. I own a GenCon 2006 version of Primitive, one of a set which Kevin Allen Jr. hand-stitched and otherwise bench-made for that event. It's a beautiful little book; the stitching is very good and holds it together without fear of unravelling, and the paper is just right for the look and feel of play. It's clearly handmade but by no means crappy-looking. I am not entirely certain whether he's doing that again for GenCon 2007 and the ongoing release of the game, but for purposes of this post, let's say he's not - let's say from now on, or at least most of of the time from now on, Primitive will be a small, standard paperback.

If so, then the handmade edition becomes a work of art which specifically celebrates the game's primitiveness, the ideas that humanity resides in our shared community and may be expressed through direct contact with the non-technological world, without reference to however many beeping lights and accumulated archives of legislation we may currently have. These are features of play which are now expressed through the game's physical presentation, and so using that book, just handling it during prep and play, is itself, primitive.

Does any of that help, or make sense?

Best, Ron

[Seth M. Drebitko]

I do agree 100% I think I am going to give the option of perfect bound print on demand versions, but also purchase myself an industrial coil binding machine. I have looked around on-line and they are not to horribly priced and some can produce as many as 350+ books an hour! I would probably also do very limited runs of hand bound "Kewl Editions" which would be given out in various contests, biddings and other methods of promotion.

I guess the only other question I would have is what is the normal paper grade used in printing? I matched up a 300 page book to a stack of three hundred printer pages and it is like half the size.

(Thanks for all the advice)
Regards, Seth

[C.W.Richeson]

I think you're dramatically underestimating the importance most folk place, conscious or otherwise, on presentation.  Having an attractive product is important to getting the consumer to pick it up initially, and then to finish reading it.  Art and formatting communicate information just like text does and, when effectively used, turn a good product into a great one.

Would what you're doing really find a demand?  It seems like folk who want a cheaper version would do best to buy the PDF and print it, or the sections they're most interested in, themselves.  While you'd have the bulk advantage, I would expect shipping to really kill this option for most folk.

[Seth M. Drebitko]

I plan on putting out a very good quality pod version, as well as the quickly made coil bound books. The quality of materials the coil bound will be made from would be the same as those used by normal publishers but because I would be making it directly it would be allot cheaper. Hand making the book would be an option for those like myself who like having coil bound over standard, or who are just looking to get cheap books (stingy gamer editions are popular). I figure worst case I pick the machine up a good (yet not amazing) amount of people prefer that option and I get to still pick up all my books as cheap pdfs and then bind them as coil.
(Besides after like 600 books it's pure profit ;P)

Regards, Seth

[MatrixGamer]

I've wondered whither an art bound book would have much of a market in gaming. I threw out in a recent thread the question of if people would go for beautifully bound D+D books?

The trouble with art bounding is getting it beautiful. It is relatively easy to make a book. It is a lot of work but not impossible. Doing it beautifully is much harder. I've been playing around with it for years and still have a lot to learn. For me getting the cover right is the hard part. Before 1950, printing, book sewing and case/cover making were three separate trades. They have widely divergent skill bases. I'm not certain of what all the skills are yet.

As to your mechanical book. Very "Modern Art" of you. I have a book from 1962 bound pretty close to what you described. It has held up well (it's a year older than me!) Metal on paper though is rough on the paper. It is worth doing at least ten of, just to use at shows to attract attention. Probably less useful in actual use.

Chris Engle

[Dosoga]

I tend to agree with that idea. I think the metal cover makes a great display piece or special prize (you may even want to edge the paper with a metallic finish), but it would be impractical as a selling item. The weight might prohibit shipping, and I am not sure how the assembly would hold up to long use with such a heavy cover. Still, it may be feasible at a decent cost.

While it's true that cheap gamer versions can be attractive, in my opinion good layout is still important, and some black and white art would be a must. If I flip through a book that is text only, I would rather pay a few bucks for it as a PDF. For an actual book, I want substance AND some style that puts me in the mood of the game.

PG 

[Seth M. Drebitko]

The metal book was intended for a short pr run, it is about as heavy as a hard cover (if not  little lighter) because all the materials used are very light. As for the "cheap" edition literally the only difference between the two will be that one is spiral bound, and one is perfect bound. The spiral will be cheaper because I would self bind them with an automated machine as opposed to outsourcing for them.

I am curious Chris about how much of your time is taken up in binding your books, and do you use a modern binding machine in the process?

regards, Seth

[MatrixGamer]

I bought a smyth sewing machine a few years ago so I sew my books. The thing wieghs 800 pounds and needs a bit of space to store so it is not an option for most people. What it does do for me is allow me to make the guts of books pretty quickly with some durability. The trouble has always been with the cover.

Last year I did a number of hardback book runs (and got stiffed on two of them... he grumbles) I found that I could do 100 books a month working evenings. The time consuming part was making the covers. Constructing a color laminated cover is very labor intensive. I've yet to figure out a good solution to the lamination film separating from the cover in paper backs, in quickly making the hard back cases and in consistently casing in the book blocks to the case.

You may run into the last problem. Attaching the book to the cover is easy just put in a strip of white glue and colse the cover. BUT when you open it back up does it open well? If you attach the book to the case when it is open, will it close well? What I've noticed is that the book block needs to attach to the hinge of the book before it attaches to the hard cover. So in effect the book is first glued in with the cover closed and then with it open... A lot of work.

I wondered if you were going to bolt the spine of the book between two metal pieces and hinge from the metal bits. That is what they did with the art catalogue I mentioned above.

I put in to do a home printing seminar at Gen Con but haven't heard if it's been accepted. The Hamster Press booth is next to or across from what I think is the Forge booth (though it is not named that) so I hope people will come over and talk production techniques with me.

Chris Engle

[timfire]

1. The "cheap ass effect" in which a book could be quickly produced in a quality, yet not so "sexy look", but fetch a lower cost.

I really question whether you can hand-make a book for much cheaper than a printer, unless you work at Kinko's or some other copy/print house. If you're willing to get a short print run (say, a couple to a few hundred), you can get the cost pretty low. I mean, you could get a B+W book for roughly 2-3 cents/page + $1-2 for the cover. Kinko's or the like is going to cost 7-10 cents/page (though you can halve that for a small book) + $1 for a color cover + the cost of the paper.

[edit] edited for grammar [/edit]

[Seth M. Drebitko]

The spiral bound will be in color as opposed to the perfect bound (which is much cheaper), and I have actualy been debating do small print runs of the perfect bound books.

Regards, Seth

[woodelf]

You may run into the last problem. Attaching the book to the cover is easy just put in a strip of white glue and colse the cover. BUT when you open it back up does it open well? If you attach the book to the case when it is open, will it close well? What I've noticed is that the book block needs to attach to the hinge of the book before it attaches to the hard cover. So in effect the book is first glued in with the cover closed and then with it open... A lot of work.

Um, maybe it's a terminology thing, but i'm a bit confused by this. I made my living doing book repair/restoration for the university library for a while, and i've never seen a hardcover book where the pages were attached to the spine, if that's what you mean by "hinge". Normally, they're glued only to the covers, and the spine is attached to the front and back covers--so maybe that's part of your problem? Also, for anyone doing this sort of stuff, may i highly recommend PVA--it's a glue designed for bookbinding and similar applications, readily available through Demco (and probably other places), and much better than any other glue i've tried, for the application.