[Cutthroat] Vroooooommmm!

[Ron Edwards]

One of my sins is not playing the Ronnies games to the fullest. I've played a lot of them, but not enough. Fortunately, in the last couple of months, I managed to get in a few, including Cutthroat by Troy Costisick at the big ol' Forge Midwest fest. The group included Troy, me, Alexander Newman, Matt Snyder, and Luke Crane - actually a pretty fine selection for this game, as several of us present various spins on extremely masculine profiles or types or whatever you want to call them. Unfortunately, Troy had to leave in the middle of play to deal with a real-life emergency situation, and we finished without him.

This is the biker game that pretends at first to be directed by Russ Meyer, but then it turns out to be John Waters playing a joke on us. Which is a film-geek way to say, it's everything I'd hoped for when I awarded it a Ronny a year and a half ago, especially the skanky girlfriends.

Briefly, the game is a competition to see whose biker can dominate all the others. Each has a Status score, but status isn't dominance; the latter must be established through direct, one-on-one conflicts. These conflicts occur during Rallies; Rallies are punctuated by Raids.

Our characters were a fine pack of greasy, chancre-y, smelly, brawny hairbags ... looking over the sheets I saved, I find Slick, Mad Dog, Stone Blaze, Corby, and Buzz (the Rat). Their various secrets included stuff like scared of spiders, but also that two of them were either cops or in cahoots with the cops. The story itself was a chain of escapades, varying from extremely dramatic, like Corby jumping his hawg over a line of flaming police cars, or extremely embarassing, like getting beaned with a frying pan by a grandma, or (all too often) performing some kind of humiliating act to serve the needs of one's girlfriend, as when Slick staggered back to the Rally with a mountain of shoeboxes full of shoes. Alexander got a lot of mileage out of his big-hair squeeze.

Since Troy had left, that meant the dominance dynamic was thrown off a little bit, and as it turned out, my character Slick did end up dominating everyone and winning. But looking back, it probably should have gone to Luke's character Corby, and we spent some time talking about why things ended up a little skewed or rather, too random in outcome.

The thing that worked really well was the Boasting step, in which the Rat gets to choose who gets a point of Status after the Raid. It's especially fun because of course, a given biker doesn't have to tell the truth at all. The rule for overriding the Rat's call works quite well, I think, without invalidating his crucial role. I hadn't realized, from reading, that the real hoot comes from proposing the adversity for someone on a Raid, because you set up situations in which, even if they succeed, they can't get a good brag out of it. Or so you might think - because then people find ways to do it anyway that are extremely surprising.

We did identify and isolate the single significant mechanical flaw: the starting Status scores are too consequential. It takes a lot of work for the low-starting-status characters to pull up even, and setbacks are far more consequential for them than equivalent events are for the high-status guys. The problem is easy and mathematical: the roll for starting Status is 2d6 (with sum equals Status), and resolution rolls are also 2d6 with Status being added. That means that effectively, 50% of the contribution to every roll is already determined by Status, or to put it differently, the range of the bonuses (difference between two bikers' Status scores) is statistically equivalent to the range of the rolls (difference between their two rolls). That's not acceptable - it means starting Status determines too much about the outcomes of challenges based on Status. It played far too negative a role in the other tactics of the game.

So after we played, we went over it and came up with a big fix, as follows:

1. Everyone rolls 2d6 to start, to see who gets the highest single die; use the lower-value die only for breaking ties. Those The person with the highest roll gets the highest status, set at 6 (no matter how many people are playing).

2. Proceeding counterclockwise in the seating order, count down in increments of 1 for everyone else's status. If you have more than six people, then multiple players will have Status 1. The Rat is automatically the person who sits at the high-roller's left.

3. After that, play proceeds as written using the 2d6 resolution rules. Bonuses and penalties (i.e. +3 for using a Secret) stay the same.

4. The only modification to the rules in general, due to this rule, is that all Cops have a Status equal to the Rat's Status. Cool, huh?

This fix accomplishes a few things, all good. For one thing, at the start, everyone has an opponent or two within his or her range of effective rolling. For another, the overall range of Status is cut in half, so anyone can see himself or herself as having a shot at the big time, just that some are a little closer than others.

Here are some further, less important rules issues, all of which should be cleaned up and re-written.

1. Getting shot is not an elegant mechanic. It's too hard to keep track of the penalties and no fun when you do. Luke was rising rapidly from low status and getting shot hammered him too hard. Overall, I'm still not entirely sure I like the role of possible character death in the game, but I'd like to play again with the fixed statistics (above) before making up my mind.

2. More generally, the game needs a clear summary of all modifications to Status and to rolls. I was never entirely sure what was a temporary bonus or penalty, and never entirely sure when Status actually increased or decreased, and whether it was permanent or temporary.

Now for some comments about the book itself. Bluntly: this is an ashcan. Now, I think that you're OK with that, Troy, and so am I as a subscriber to the Divine Legacy project, but I'm not sure if everyone who bought into it really understood that their game-a-quarter subscription gets them ashcans, not "games" in the completed-published sense of the word. I also think you should have a formal mechanism for subscribers to provide commentary on the products they receive, with an equally formal commitment on your part to considering and implementing the comments. By formal, I mean on your site or a dedicated activity here at the Forge.

1. The cover image and design are perfect in concept but fail in execution. The image itself needs to be centered top-to-bottom so the motorcycle doesn't crowd the title and the empty space at the bottom is eliminated. The text pieces need to be spaced out better; again, they crowd everything else and one another. The resolution is wretched - the text and image need to be re-scanned, re-done, re-defined, and re-embedded from the ground up. This could be a very, very sharp and exciting game cover, but right now it looks like crap.

2. The interior format: the every-page graphic is too dark and also a little bit annoying on every page. I think that it could serve well if lightened up and if restricted only to pages that begin a section. I do like the interior illustrations, in style, number, content, and usage relative to the text.

3. The text itself needs extensive copy-editing, for grammar, spelling, and all the basics. Also, a number of rules display certain artifacts of older versions which need to be eliminated. Troy, get help! From Luke or from Paul, at this point - they each have a lot of skill and are attuned to the kind of punk sensibility that the game currently displays.

Best, Ron

[Troy_Costisick]

Heya Ron,

Sorry it took me so long to reply to this. I had been looking in the wrong forum for it.

First, let me say I had a really great time playing with you guys as I always do whenever I play that game with new people.  Cutthroat is one of the best "party" games I've ever played.  As I expected, no one was as aggressive as they could have been.  But no one plays Cutthroat balls out the first time anyway.  The mechanics worked the way I wanted them to, and your criticisms are very good.

1. Everyone rolls 2d6 to start, to see who gets the highest single die; use the lower-value die only for breaking ties. Those The person with the highest roll gets the highest status, set at 6 (no matter how many people are playing).

2. Proceeding counterclockwise in the seating order, count down in increments of 1 for everyone else's status. If you have more than six people, then multiple players will have Status 1. The Rat is automatically the person who sits at the high-roller's left.

3. After that, play proceeds as written using the 2d6 resolution rules. Bonuses and penalties (i.e. +3 for using a Secret) stay the same.

4. The only modification to the rules in general, due to this rule, is that all Cops have a Status equal to the Rat's Status. Cool, huh?

I like the way you suggest generating the Status.  It eliminates the potential for a first turn win, which has happened on occasion and is never fun.  Your suggestion about the Cops is interesting.  My idea was that as the game progresses, the Cops become less and less relevant to the game.  Since they always have a status of "5", bikers who accumulate a status of 11+ really don't have to worry about them anymore.  It makes the players step up and oppose the bikers more.  However, the problem becomes that there is no limit to the number of times a Biker can attempt to satisfy his Girlfriend's desire or steal cash for a new Bike.  Which means that sooner or later, the Biker will get what he wants.  That's not exactly ideal.  The way you suggest it makes the Cops more and more of a threat as the game progresses.  That's definitely a positive, and will certainly make raids more and more dangerous.

However, I disagree that those are the only rules that need modification.  The "putting Bikers in jail" thing really sucks.  At first it was an interesting twist to play, but the more I use it, the more it just keeps people out of the game.  People not participating in the action is un-fun.  We didn't use it in Chicago, and thank goodness.  It's crappy.  So that part will go.  Also, I think the character sheet could use a sprucing up as well.  The game we played at Forge Midwest was very helpful, and I know it will turn out better in the revision.  Thanks so much for being willing to play it.  It means a lot to me.  That goes out to everyone there, Luke, Matt, Alexander,  thanks so much guys!  You made the trip totally worth it!

Are there any other questions about the game you have? 

Peace,

-Troy

[Ron Edwards]

Yeah! I'd like to play it a couple more times with people here in Chicago, so there's something I need.

What are ALL the possible penalties, based on what results, and which ones are temporary, which are permanent (i.e. reduce rather than penalize a score), and how does one bring back the temporary ones?

Best, Ron

[Troy_Costisick]

Heya,

What are ALL the possible penalties, based on what results, and which ones are temporary, which are permanent (i.e. reduce rather than penalize a score), and how does one bring back the temporary ones?

No problem.  All negative modifiers to Status are temporary.  Some positive modifiers are permanent and some are temporary.  I'll give you a meta-table right here:

_____________________________
Things the reduce Status:

-Getting Shot: -2 penalty until you sit out a Raid or perform a "Job" during a Rally to get medical attention
-Opponent Uses Your Secret During a Challenge: -3 until Challenge is over
-Losing a Challenge You Initiated: -1 penalty (cumulative) until a Raid begins
_____________________________


_____________________________
Things the increase Status:

-Revealing Your Own Secret During a Challenge: +4 until Challenge is over (after the Challenge, everyone knows your Secret)
-Non-Rat Biker Who Knows Opponent's Secret: +4 until Challenge is over (in revised playtests, this bonus is now +3)
-Rat Who Knows Biker's Secret: +2 until Challenge is over
-Biker's or Girlfriend's Talent: +2 to the immediate situation until that situation is resolved (eg: Challenge, Approach, Raid, etc)
-Girlfriend's Cheering: +2 until the end of a Challenge if her Talent relates to cheering and/or fighting
-Getting a New Bike: +2 permanent
-Getting a Custom Bike: +3 permanent
-Winning a Bragging Session: +1 permanent
-Rat Bonus: +1 permanent bonus to Rat's Status at end of every Bragging Session
____________________________

I hope that helps some.  Also, Ron, about wounding and harm.  You can choose not to play with this if you desire, but instead of three wounding levels (Alive, Wounded, Dead) I am expanding them to five:

-Alive: No Penalty
-Scratched: -1 Penalty until you sit out a Raid or get Medical Attention (through a Job)
-Hurt: -2 Penalty until you sit out a Raid or get Medical Attention
-Wounded: -3 Penalty until you sit out a Raid or get Medical Attention
-Dead: Biker is out of the game, girlfriend goes to the Biker with the highest Status after the Bragging Session

You still get wounds the same way (only from Cops) and get rid of them the same way.  The fact that there are more wounding levels makes them a much less severe punishment and encourages players to go ahead and go on a Raid while harmed thus taking a risk and giving the other players a chance to pile on if they want.  It's more fun.

I really appreciate your interest in this game, Ron.  I hope the info I've provided here is helpful.  Please let me know if there is anything more I can do

Peace,

-Troy