[agon] Newbie questions on oficial rulings/advices

[RPL]

Hi,

I've played Agon once and now I was selected to GM some islands to a group. I plan to post a full AP after we complete the first island.

So a couple of things came up during our first session:
- Can you have conflicts between PCs besides Orate? And if so can they BDTP it? We decided that no on both accounts, PvP is only for trying to get a better roll than the other party mates on a PvGM conflict and no BDTP on Orate between players. Still I would like to know the official ruling/advice on this;

- I want to make a magic item for and NPC but I'm not really sure how to do it. The first I thing I think is to translate the item into some sort of already defined item like a weapon or armor (i think that's about it really), then allow it to use some of the NPCs-only powers (if so, should it have some sort of activation cost?), finally put a fancy name on it for color. How does it sound?

- I plan on having a battle conflict on the next session, where the PCs try to literally battle trough an Artemis blessed forest to get to central city of one of her chosen people tribe. I can see in the rules how this works for the PCs but I have no idea on what dice I should roll for this, should I always roll the standard 2d6+strife on attack or should I make the Forest like an NPC and treat it like one?

I think that's it for now, thanks in advance for the help.


Diogo Curado

[John Harper]

Hi Diogo,

Good questions!

Can you have conflicts between PCs besides Orate?
Yep, you sure can. Check out page 66:

If two or more heroes have a simple contest against each other (there's no Antagonist roll involved), then the winner earns 1 Glory and there is no extra Glory won.

Each group has its own preference for how far PC vs. PC conflicts can go, and I don't get specific in the text. In my own groups, PCs have never actually come to blows, for example.

And if so can they BDTP it?
Technically, yes. I strongly discourage this, though, unless it's something very important. Battles take time to play out, so they shouldn't be called down lightly.

I want to make a magic item for and NPC but I'm not really sure how to do it.
Your method sounds good. An activation cost isn't necessary, though. Check out the NPC sorcerer on page 98. He has a "Wand of the North Wind" that acts like a javelin (by hurling blasts of freezing air). He also has the Hold and Life Drain powers, which I would probably narrate as emanating from the wand.

And of course, clever PCs can come up with actions so they can roll conflicts to separate an NPC from his magic items.

Fighting the Forest
If the forest is meant to be an important obstacle in the quest, then yes, definitely make it an NPC. Then it can actually fight the heroes (maybe a Hunt battle?), with weapons like "Dark twisty trails" and "Dense undergrowth."

Let me know how it goes!

[RPL]

Thanks for help, those answers really came in the nick of time before our session hehe.

I haven't had the time to experiment with the magic items, but I hope I can bring it in next weeks session.

My main concern was the forest, I made the NPC thinking of making it a non-combat battle, were the forest would try to make the heroes get lost and confused and as such I equiped it with powers like Re-position and weapons like Foggy Surroundings (swords) expecting to use the battle map to represent the whole thing, with the heroes trying to get from one end to the other fighting/finding their way through the mists and misleading paths.

However once we got to that point and started the battle one of the players noticed that in non-combat battles all the characters are in optimal range and that the battle map isn't used... so I started looking at the 16 strife I've just wasted making the forest and thinking: Okay... I just thumbled something...

So how should I've handled this? how can I make a non-combat battle using all the components (range, position, etc.) of a combat battle?

A couple other questions also arose during play:
- How long does a Divine Weapon lasts? we decided that they would last for the duration of a quest, tops!
- There are some Heroic Traits that give position bonus when fighting, these bonuses apply to all engagements, even non-combat ones or are just restrictred to combat position?

Once again thanks for the help, especially if the answers are in the book and I'm just not finding them.


Diogo Curado

[Darren Hill]

However once we got to that point and started the battle one of the players noticed that in non-combat battles all the characters are in optimal range and that the battle map isn't used... so I started looking at the 16 strife I've just wasted making the forest and thinking: Okay... I just thumbled something...

So how should I've handled this? how can I make a non-combat battle using all the components (range, position, etc.) of a combat battle?

A non-combat battle doesn't use those things. If you want to use them, the easiest way is to make it a combat battle, and have the forest attacking them with its trees and so forth.
If you come up with a way of using them, though, let us know!

- How long does a Divine Weapon lasts? we decided that they would last for the duration of a quest, tops!

I was under the impression this was for just one combat.

- There are some Heroic Traits that give position bonus when fighting, these bonuses apply to all engagements, even non-combat ones or are just restrictred to combat position?

I'm not sure. If I was an obstreperous player arguing with my GM, I could make a case either way. John?
Once again thanks for the help, especially if the answers are in the book and I'm just not finding them.


Diogo Curado
[/quote]

[John Harper]

Hi Diogo,

The Forest Battle
I think you combined a regular battle and a non-combat battle and it got a little confusing.

The forest could have fought the heroes using the standard battle rules, with the range strip and such, using Reposition, its Swords ability, etc. In this case, the heroes would fight back with their own Battle abilities. I would do this if the battle with the forest was a physical one, with the trees and mists attacking the heroes and the dark paths leading them into harm's way.

Or, the battle could have been non-combat, using abilities like Hunt and Lore. In this case, the forest NPC would use not use its Battle abilities. It would use Hunt, with Insight for attack and Might for defense. It could probably still use the weapons you made for it, though (depending on how they were defined) in place of Insight and Might if you wanted. Several NPC powers would still apply (damage increasing powers in particular). Position rolls are made in non-combat battles, but since you don't use the range strip, Reposition doesn't do anything.

Divine Weapon
A weapon charged with divine favor lasts for one battle. This detail is missing from the book.

Heroic Trait Bonus
Heroic Trait bonuses apply to non-combat battles as well as regular ones.

[RPL]

The Forest Battle
I think you combined a regular battle and a non-combat battle and it got a little confusing.

It was exactly what happened, I can see now how I mixed both thing up and I shouldn't have, in the future I shall take both yours and Darren advice, make it a regular or non-combat, no mixing. Probably what I will do next time around, for a non-combat battle such as this, is give the NPC several advantage dice (I belive that they can start with 3 for free and then buy more with strife) to use instead of weapons and powers. Thank you both for clearing that up for me.

It could probably still use the weapons you made for it, though (depending on how they were defined) in place of Insight and Might if you wanted.

I'm curious about this, how would this work, could the NPC use Sharp Branches like a 2d6 Sword, instead of lets say 1d8 Insight? If so could the PCs try to do the same and use ... things, has weapons (if translatable)?

Thanks for clearing the other questions also, it's been a really fun game to play, specially with a group like the one I have were everyone is at everybody else throat to get those Glory awards, I promise a full AP Report once we're done with our first island.

[RPL]

Hi again, another couple of games played and another round of questions hehe.

First of all, thank you very much for that advice on the Forest thing I totally redeemed my self by creating a named NPC who was a dungeon and the players had a great time beating it and its guards.

So, to questions:

- Does rolling the armour die count has a roll in terms of the bonuses you get by spending Divine Favour? Like using it to roll +1d6 when you're down to a d4 or using the +1d6 instead of re-rolling a d6 armour die.

- What happens in terms of Glory distribution when the PCs loose a fight? It says in the book that the glory of the wound plus the strife spent on crating the battle gets to be handed out when it's over, does over mean either they win or loose it?


Thanks for your help.

Diogo Curado

[Rick Danger]

Hello Red
Thanks for the heads up on Agon. I just got it yesterday and read through it in an instance

I'm also getting to know the faq and alternative rules, so I think I can try to reference for an answer to your last questions.

Does rolling the armour die count has a roll in terms of the bonuses you get by spending Divine Favour?

The FAQ seems to indicate that you can use creative abilities with the armour die ("You can wait to see if your armor helps before adding creative ability dice in defense, for example.") so I would say it also counts for divine favour.

What happens in terms of Glory distribution when the PCs loose a fight? It says in the book that the glory of the wound plus the strife spent on crating the battle gets to be handed out when it's over, does over mean either they win or loose it?

According to the book, glory from wound boxes is earned "when the enemy is defeated". Glory from Strife spent is won "when the battle is over". I would say that, like in a simple contest, the battle has to be won for glory to be earned.

[RPL]

Hey Ricky D., glad you're liking it.

1) We supposed that to be the case, so we went with it, however a couple of things did came up that made us think that it could not be so, for instance I had an NPC already down to d4 in armour, so I spent a DF to role another d6 when the checked failed, this is much cheaper than spending 2 DF in order to get a re-roll, the same is true if armour is at d6.

So I just want to know if it's a bug on our reading or a feature of the game, cause to some of my players it felt kind of wrong. It could also be a group consensus thingy, but I'd like to hear the "official" thoughts anyway.

2) That was also the way I read it, "over" doesn't mean "won". This mainly came up because we were debating the importance of loosing a battle, since the characters don't die and they still get the glory of the conflict what would prevent the leader of always pushing the band in going all the way into a fight even if they are all messed up before.

I guess it has to be tied with the game situation at the moment and more related to narrative part of the game than the mechanics. But has above, me/the group are rules geek and just want to know if we read the rules right.


Thanks for your input Rick, do you have a time line for when you're going to play it?

Diogo Curado

[Rick Danger]

what would prevent the leader of always pushing the band in going all the way into a fight even if they are all messed up before.

Yes, my impression is that losing a battle not only allows the opposition to enforce its goals, but also yelds no Glory. That's why Giving Up is a valid option during the break phase: if you're going to lose and take no glory, at least save yourself some wounds.

Thanks for your input Rick, do you have a time line for when you're going to play it?

I was thinking of using Agon's competitive edge to entice our boardgamers into their first roleplaying experience I'm still digesting the rules, tough.

[Darren Hill]

Does rolling the armour die count has a roll in terms of the bonuses you get by spending Divine Favour?

The FAQ seems to indicate that you can use creative abilities with the armour die ("You can wait to see if your armor helps before adding creative ability dice in defense, for example.") so I would say it also counts for divine favour.

I just want to point out, respectfully, that i believe this to be a misunderstanding of the rules.
* Creative abilities can't be used on armour rolls.
* Creative abilities can be used on the defence roll.
* After failing a defence roll, you can roll armour before deciding whether to use a creative ability.
* If armour fails, and you do use a creative ability, it applies to the defence roll, not the armour roll.
That's what the phrase "You can wait to see if your armor helps before adding creative ability dice in defense" means.

[John Harper]

Yep, Darren has it right.

[JMendes]

Ahey,

I'm one of the players in Diogo's campaing.

Ok, so we established that cretive abilities can't be used on the armor roll, and that's all well and good, since none of us were using it.

A harder question, however, is if Divine Favor points can be spent on the armor roll itself, whether to re-roll the armor die, which is nice if you're still at d8 or d10, or to add further d6 dice, which is nice and cheap when you're down to d6 or d4.

Cheers,
J.

[John Harper]

Hello, J!

Yes, you can use Divine Favor on armor rolls.