Newbie to RPG Design, Looking for some advice regarding a system

[thegreatigster]

Hello Forge, my Name is Nicholas Graziade and I'm working on an RPG system I call the 3/10s system (because in the dice pools used - d10s- only 30% of the faces are successes).  The name is tentative, until I come up with something cooler.  Anywho, I've been writing up some stuff for my game, which is set in a world of my devising that is based on Slavic and Russian Folklore.  But before I delve deeper into the game, I would like to see what people think of my core mechanic.  I've never played a dice pool game until recently (played Shadowrun in college a couple of times).  I wanted to place my take on a dice pool system here to see what people think.  My main questions are as follows:
1) Does it look like a good system (i.e. usable, fun, etc.)
2) Would it be worth experimenting with a 33% based system that still incorporates key elements of this existing system? (this would serve to cause successes to increase and also increase the chance of failure with some modifications)
3) Does it look too much like something else out there?  (this is not a legal question, but since most of my RPG experience came with D&D, I don't want to rip someone else off.  So, if anyone thinks of something really similar to what I've created, let me know so I can investigate further)

Okay, after that lengthy, throat-clearing intro, here is a brief look at my system.  Many things are tentative, but enough of my talking...

[thegreatigster]

Attributes and Skills

Each attribute (Vigor/Dexterity/Mind/Wisdom/Harmony) is rated on a standard level of -3 to +3.  These modifiers affect a variety of gauges.  When used with the core dice mechanic of the 3/10 system, they are modifiers that are directly related to the dice in the dice pool.  Skills are rated at levels.  Having a level in a skill represents the number of dice available for the dice pool.

Core Mechanic

The core mechanic of the 3/10 system involves rolling d10s in what is known as a dice pool - an group of dice rolled to create suspense and fortune in an action.  Generally, the more skilled a character is, the more dice will be added to a pool.  The 3/10 system derives its name from this mechanic.  Each time an 8, 9, or 10 is rolled (i.e., 30% or three-tenths of the die's faces), it counts as a success.  Additional successes are granted when matching successes appear on the dice.  For example, if out of a dice pool of 4d10, the results are 2, 3, 8, and 8, the matching 8s provide the opportunity to do one of two things:  remove any cancels (covered below) or gamble and add another die to the pool in hopes of gaining more successes and possibly more matches.  This is known as double matching, or simply doubles.  It is important to note that matched successes are
only counted if the dice show double 8s, 9s, or 10s.    If triple matches occur (e.g.  9, 9 and 9), the character is granted additional bonuses. Rolling a 1 any time will cancel out any successes. 

Rolling matched 1s, however, cancels out 3 successes. If the number of cancels ever outweighs the number of successes, the action is considered an automatic failure and, if possible, must be attempted again.

Penalties for Triple 1s (Dismal Failures)

The GM is given the right to make the appropriate narrative decisions regarding how triple 1s are dealt with.  Though they occur rarely (0.10% chance on 3 dice with slightly greater probabilities on 4 or more dice), they tend to represent twists of fate that can truly impede a character's progress.  For example, say Anya is attempting to lie to her father, the Count of Sardan, in order to hide that Grigory, the lowly castle guard, is secretly her lover.  She rolls a pool of 6 dice (Wisdom +3 and Persuasion Level 3) and gets 1, 1, 1, 6, 7, and 10.  That's a set of triple 1s!  Regardless of her one success, the weight of this
failed roll counters any chance she may have had of convincing her father to look the other way.  The GM decides that because of this, Grigory has also admitted to the affair!  Anya is really in trouble now...

Standard Skill Checks

A dice pool is assembled based on the level of the skill employed.  This pool is modified by the related aspect rating (typically -3 to +3).  Each die that comes up with an 8 or higher on a d10 is considered a success.  The number of successes is weighed against a threshold (typically 1 for standard tasks to 5 for extraordinary tasks.  Thresholds above 5 are rare, but can occur based on modifiers to the difficulty rating).

Contested Checks

When contested checks take place, each player rolls (or GM) rolls in a dice pool to accumulate successes.  Whichever person has the most successes wins the contest.

Durational Checks

Sometimes actions require a total number of successes to be attained before a task is completed.  In these situations, the dice pool is rolled each interval of time required (determined by the GM).  When the total number of successes needed is achieved, the character has completed the task.

For example, Nikolai the Sail maker needs to finish repairs sail that was ruined in a storm.  Though a skilled craftsmen, the GM decides that Nikolai still needs ten successes to finish the task.  Each roll of the dice pool will represent half an hour of work.  Nikolai (Intelligence +1 and Artifice at Level 4) rolls 5 dice, scoring 4, 4, 8, 9, and 10 -- three successes.  He now needs to roll a total of seven successes to finish the task at hand.  After half an hour of work, he gets to roll again.  This time, he scores extremely well: 2, 6, 9, 10, and 10.  Because of the matched success, he opts to roll another die, scoring an 8.  Nikolai adds 4 more successes to his total.  Now, with only three remaining successes, it looks like the sail will be done within the hour.

Durational checks can also be used as contested checks.  Say, for example, Ivan and Fyodor are racing to climb ropes.  Climbing ropes in this fashion usually allows for a check every round (every three seconds).  The GM decides that because the ropes aren't too long, only a total of 5 successes are needed to get to the top.  Ivan (Vigor +2 and Athletics at Level 3) rolls 5 dice, scoring 2, 4, 5, 8, and 10.  Fyodor (Vigor +1 and Athletics at Level 2) rolls 3 dice, scoring 3, 6, and 8.  This creates a score between the two characters of 2 to 1 respectively.  Ivan is therefore climbing faster than Fyodor for the duration of the first round. The second round, however, Ivan rolls 1, 3, 3, 4, and 9 (resulting in 0 net successes because of the cancel roll) while Fyodor is extremely lucky and rolls 8, 8, and 10.  Fyodor opts to add another die to the pool, and rolls a 9, adding
another success.  Now, the score is 1 to 5 in Fyodor's favor.  In fact, because of  his remarkable fortune, Fyodor has surpassed the more athletic Ivan and has made it to the top of the rope faster than anyone expected!

Fortune Check

If for some reason the number of the dice pool is reduced below zero, a fortune check is made.  A fortune check only succeeds on a 10.  Otherwise, the action is a considered a failure.  For example, Ekaterina's horse, who was foolishly not tied down, ran off during a thunderstorm, spooked by the lightning.  The rain is coming down so heavily, that the GM decides that there will be a -3 penalty to the dice pool.  She needs to roll a perception check to see if she can spot it (Mind +0 and Perception at Level 2).  This produces -1 dice because of the penalty.  Still, Ekaterina gets to roll a fortune check.  She succeeds, rolling a 10!  Lo and behold, her missing horse is in the trees behind the tavern.

[Chris_Chinn]

Hi,

I'm not deeply aware of the exact probabilities, but what is the value of having cancels in your mechanics?  The more dice you roll, the more likely you are to get cancels, and, since a single cancel match knocks out 3 successes, it could get really ugly.  And if triple one's make a super failure, I think it would be really hard to do well with extra dice at all.  The earlier versions of the White Wolf system had a similar thing- rolling 1's in a dice pool canceled out successes and made it actually harder to succeed and more likely to botch as you got more and more dice.

What's the larger scale idea for this system?  Are you going to put it into a specific setting?  Is it supposed to be generic?  If so, what kinds of action or play should it support? Gritty realistic? Cinematic?  Are PCs running around doing investigations, fighting, romance? 

Chris

[J. Scott Timmerman]

1) Does it look like a good system (i.e. usable, fun, etc.)

Nothing in the dice mechanic seems to take away from the fun.  It might be a bit complex, but nothing worse than a lot of systems I've encountered.  In my opinion, the excitement of getting matched successes with no 1s is a plus.  The gamble is suspenseful.  Characters might not take it if they already have enough successes.  In that sense, it doesn't really harm anyone who has already achieved satisfactory successes, but it can help or harm someone that wants more.  I think it's a good starting point.

2) Would it be worth experimenting with a 33% based system that still incorporates key elements of this existing system? (this would serve to cause successes to increase and also increase the chance of failure with some modifications)

It would seem to me that the matter is more about your preference on how likely you think success should be.  Of course, other ways of manipulating the numbers, such as altering the average number of dice players have (by raising or lowering the range of scores available) or by redefining difficulty levels.  I can help you do the math on this, if you think it's important.  Otherwise, it's good to playtest the mechanic thoroughly so that you know it doesn't feel unfair.  You don't want the success rate to be too high or too low for your intended theme.

If you're attempting to accomplish 33% by perhaps using d6s instead, then the fact that d6s are more common than d10s might prove to your advantage.

3) Does it look too much like something else out there?  (this is not a legal question, but since most of my RPG experience came with D&D, I don't want to rip someone else off.  So, if anyone thinks of something really similar to what I've created, let me know so I can investigate further)

Again, I don't think you'll have any legal issues, but, including what Chris_Chinn pointed out, there seem to be a surprisingly high number of coincidences with White Wolf's World of Darkness series.  In their newest edition:

1. Rolls consist of pools of d10s, with a number of dice equal to Attribute + Ability.
2. Results of 8, 9, and 10 are counted as successes, and you add these successes up.
3. Results of 1 remaining with no successes count as extreme failures.
4. A die pool reduced below one die still gets to roll 1 die, and only a 10 is counted as a success.
5. Instead of getting the chance to roll another die on a matched success, WoD rolls another die on any 10.
6. Similar rules for extended and contested rules exist in their system as well.

As Chris said, in previous editions of World of Darkness, 1s also cancelled out other successes (but not in the current edition).

All in all, it's a workable idea.  My personal opinion is that you shouldn't worry about whether your system looks like another when trying to create the system that is ideal for your game.  But it may be a good idea to investigate other systems, simply because they've put a lot of work into them, and may have good ideas that you haven't thought of.

-Jason T.

[thegreatigster]

Thanks for the replies so far, everyone, it's helped me sort through some ideas.  I was unaware of all the similarities with the White Wolf system, but now that they've been pointed out to me, I'll try not to be too similar.

After much musing, I think I probably will switch to a 33% based system using d6s.  I did the math on the probabilities and the chart allows for a slightly better success rate but doesn't stray too far from my original 30% idea.  I believe that if I do switch to a 33% system, though, I'll remove the cancels from a single roll of one and have only matched 1s and triple 1s equal nastiness on the player's end (though not as nasty as I may have intended in the first place).

As for the system of matched successes, I think it will contribute positively to game play, but I'm not sure the best way to work this into the game.  The option to remove cancels will probably go away, making the gamble with another role the only benefit (and the player may opt not to gamble if he or she chooses).  Regardless, any advice on how to incorporate matched successes and failures into a dice pool system would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you again for the advice already, I REALLY appreciate it.
~Nick

[Chris_Chinn]

Hi Nick,

Don't worry about similarities or not- focus on what you need the game to do.  My question about the cancels still stands, which doesn't mean they can't be useful for your game, it's just a matter of what role do they play and what your game is supposed to be about in the big picture.

For example, you might have rules that involve canceling cancels ("If your skill level is X, you can ignore the first 1 you roll"), or maybe trade them around as characters help each other, or maybe even double your opponent's cancels...   Maybe some powers or options don't work unless you've rolled at least one cancel.

But again, even that is hard to say without a larger context of what the system is and what it's supposed to do.  What kind of game experience do you want to give the folks playing it?  What kind of choices can they make?  When you answer those questions, then all the fun dice tricks start to have context and you can actually judge if it's good or bad (for what you're trying to do).  Without that, there's no real input anyone can give.

Chris

[thegreatigster]

But again, even that is hard to say without a larger context of what the system is and what it's supposed to do.  What kind of game experience do you want to give the folks playing it?  What kind of choices can they make?  When you answer those questions, then all the fun dice tricks start to have context and you can actually judge if it's good or bad (for what you're trying to do).  Without that, there's no real input anyone can give.

Thanks again for the input.  I now understand that I should throw in some information about the context, so here goes...

My game takes place in a fictional set of isles where the world is governed by both the rules of science as well as the rules of the supernatural.  The supernatural elements are drawn primarily from Slavic and Russian folklore.  The Rusalka, the Domovoi, the Vampire - these are all creatures that inhabit reality.  The technology level is around where Europe was at the turn of the 18th century.  A musket is always good to have, but a soldier better be a skilled swordsman as well.  The isles where everyone lives are ripe with fens, bogs, wetlands, and moors around the coastlines with thick, dense forests and swamps in the central parts.  The land is pretty homogeneously set this way, keeping in the spirit of the creepiness.  People generally live in fixed levels of society - social mobility requires GREAT merit.  Most are peasants are serfs under the powerful (and not so powerful) boyars, though a middle/merchant/intellectual class has some say in the way things are run too.

Because of the supernatural forces that dictate life in my world, people are constantly subjects to the objects of their hopes and fears (I'm thinking of using a conflicted gauge to help rate this).  But supernatural forces are a part of life that people expect.  In fact, much of the aristocracy is in league with the undead (negative forces) while the more honorable are in league with the more benevolent forces at play in the world.

Characters are likely to be driven by a set of motivations that are logically tied to their place in the world (for example, a farmer's motivation might include protecting his family and his small parcel of land, a merchant's may be to acquire as much wealth as possible to buy a noble title).

In context of a game, characters can play anyone from a peasant to a noble to a soldier to a merchant to a friar - really anyone they can imagine in the context of 1700s Eastern Europe (though remember, this does take place in an imagined world).  Players are basically given free reign of their niche in the world.  A boyar court game might involve intrigue, seduction, backhanded dealing, and duels of honor.  In contrast, a peasant game might involve investigating the beast that is preying upon the local cattle.  Or, a soldier game might involve skirmishes between two boyars over their land.  Ultimately, the possibilities within the world are limited only by imagination.  I'm reading several books on the appropriate culture and folklore to help make my world as rich as possible.  Ripe with opportunities for adventure and conflict, rumors and legend, I think I have a pretty good setting for something enjoyable.

With all that in mind, I want characters to feel immersed in a fantastic world that is governed by hope and fear - the issues that humanity faces.  A good level of conflict is always helpful too!  Like I said, characters are given free reign to explore and experience the world, though it makes sense for the GM to throw stuff at them that's close to home.

I hope this little synopsis helps create a context for the mechanics.

[Chris_Chinn]

Awesome!

That's very helpful and very cool!  First, is there a Christian church or equivalent to your setting?  I'm asking since the bit of Russian folklore I saw seemed influenced  by Christian theology, albeit in a messy way.

Second, the conflict scale is probably going to be a focal point for your game as a whole- something that if not the central part of play, at least is a pivot upon which games rest.  What happens if a character goes too far one way or another?  How does it shift?  How often does it shift (on the average)?  Like, is it once a session or can it shift multiple times in a single session, etc?  And are there any mechanical bonuses/penalties if it does?

See, the interesting thing about that, is that it could simply represent the characters wrestling with their own issues and conflict, but depending on the effects, it could also be about preventing someone else from going too far the wrong way, or trying to nudge them the correct direction.

Third, you mention that characters are driven by motivations- are these just background and setup, or do they have mechanical effects in play?  (Bonuses, penalties, get experience points, whatever).  And how do they interact, or are affected by the conflict scale, or the skill system?

Chris

[thegreatigster]

First, is there a Christian church or equivalent to your setting?  I'm asking since the bit of Russian folklore I saw seemed influenced  by Christian theology, albeit in a messy way.

There is a church, basically revolving around the veneration of saints.

Second, the conflict scale is probably going to be a focal point for your game as a whole- something that if not the central part of play, at least is a pivot upon which games rest.  What happens if a character goes too far one way or another?  How does it shift?  How often does it shift (on the average)?  Like, is it once a session or can it shift multiple times in a single session, etc?  And are there any mechanical bonuses/penalties if it does?

I'm thinking of incorporating some sort of a conflicted gauge that quantifies a character's manifestations of hopes/fears as well as another gauge that rates one's humanity/morality (whether a character has grown cold and hardened or remains virtuous and good).  My friend recently introduced me to a game called "Unknown Armies" where they use a conflicted gauge to determine how a character will react to certain stimuli such as violence, terror, etc.  While my game world is certainly a dark place, I don't know if I want to go to the extreme that Unknown Armies does.  I may simplify what is already a good system and tweak it to make it my own - that is to say, I'll use a conflicted gauge, but in a way that is unique to my game world.

Third, you mention that characters are driven by motivations- are these just background and setup, or do they have mechanical effects in play?  (Bonuses, penalties, get experience points, whatever).  And how do they interact, or are affected by the conflict scale, or the skill system?

I'm a fan of experience awards for those who RP well.  I think that most of my gauges will be defined by flexible, over-arching ideas that are tailored to fit the individual player.  For example, a character's will likely have desires are reflected upon numerically in some way or another, but these desires are unique to the character; one character's fear will not be the same as anothers.  I don't know too much about how to implement these gauges, but I'm very eager to experiment with a system that serves the game's human character.