Demon Cops and Silent Mobius?

[bluekabuto]

Hey all -

I was just cruising the Socerer site and I saw the Demon Cops mini-supplement. Ron mentions it's based off of Japanese anime and I am just curious which one it was? I am a huge fan of Silent Mobius and would love to see if I could use it for a campaign of such sorts. Who has a copy of Demon Cops? Can you give me some more information concerning it?

[Bailywolf]

Yeah!

I've been dropping my fave Anime/Manga references here abouts for a while when I see something new... SM is a great refernce for a Demon Cops style Sorcerer game.  Good call.  

And what a neat relationship map, eh?

One thing I love about SM is the seeming over-the-top power level- attacks frequently level city blocks- yet somehow the main characters (the targets of those blasts) remain more or less unhurt... a Sorcerer implementation of SM needs a Mook rule and a note about colateral damage... when I wrote up a Feng Shui conversion for SM, I used the native mook rules...  If you want to look at that, they are over at Surbrook's Stuff (google will show the path).


If you like sorcerer-style anime, don't miss Shamanitc Princess and 3x3 Eyes as well.  Especialy the former... hang on a sec...

http://www.indie-rpgs.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1640&highlight=shamantic+princess


and


http://www.indie-rpgs.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1097&highlight=shamantic+princess



Implementing Anime using Sorcerer is one of my favorite mind games... love to confer and hear your ideas.

[joshua neff]

Hey, Bryan--

I recently bought Demon Cops & love it. The anime Ron has listed as references are: Bio-Hunter, Wicked City ("This is the single most important reference for Demon Cops."), Ninja Scroll, & Demon City Shinjuku. I'm not too familiar with Silent Mobius, but from what I think I recall about it, that could definitely be a source of inspiration for running DC.

[Ron Edwards]

Brian or Bailywolf,

If possible, please summarize the relationship map. I'd like to know more about this.

Best,
Ron

[bluekabuto]

Yeah!

I've been dropping my fave Anime/Manga references here abouts for a while when I see something new... SM is a great refernce for a Demon Cops style Sorcerer game.  Good call.  

And what a neat relationship map, eh?

One thing I love about SM is the seeming over-the-top power level- attacks frequently level city blocks- yet somehow the main characters (the targets of those blasts) remain more or less unhurt... a Sorcerer implementation of SM needs a Mook rule and a note about colateral damage... when I wrote up a Feng Shui conversion for SM, I used the native mook rules...  If you want to look at that, they are over at Surbrook's Stuff (google will show the path).

Implementing Anime using Sorcerer is one of my favorite mind games... love to confer and hear your ideas.

Yeah, I was the guy who kicked around the new web design for your Feng Mobius site! ^_^

I've been looking forever for a good rpg that I could convert Silent Mobius into. Unfortunately, Guardians Of Order was not able to secure the Silent Mobius license :( It's one of the best settings for Anime I've ever seen. I am curious to see how Demon Cops could do it.

I'd be willing to work on a conversion, as I am the biggest Silent Mobius fan there is, "Desu ke do, Boku wa Silent Mobius no otaku desu!" - helps to speak Japanese too... :)

Relationship map? Sorry, I not that familiar with Sorcerer yet. What is that? I had always thought that Sorcerer might be cool for Silent Mobius, I've only skimmed the rules. One major issue is that not everyone is a Socerer. You've got Miko priests, cyborgs, feng shui masters, visionaires and espers - not everyone's got a demon inside em' Actually, I don't believe anyone has a demon in them. It's their job to banish the demons - aka demon cops. Silent Mobius is way cool - way cool. As soon as I saw the title for Demon Cops - I had to buy it. I hate you for that Ron :)

The Graviton! Come on man, The Graviton....

Did I mention I've got a the biggest collection of Silent Mobious merchandice ever? Even got one of the resin high power blaster replicas... neat.

If you're serious about doing a SM/Sorcerer conversion, let me know. I'd be willing to work on it!

[Bailywolf]

Hey Bryan

Cool site- good design.  

SM always struck me as one of those settings with somethig for eveyone... it just screams "Play me!"  Mike Surbrook has done some seriously kickass things with the setting using Hero..but I think I've evolved into a creature who can't survive exposure to such a heavy system anymore...I'm all etherial limbs and dainty narativist senses now, floating well above the rule-gravity well in a bright happy gaming utopia of airy rule systems and drame-driven mechanics.  Sigh.

Sorcerer is a dangerous little beast- much stronger than its size would allow.  It is also a marsupial game- lots of things hidden in secret pouches beneath an inoctuous exterior.  

The trick to implementing a favored setting using Sorcerer is to reinterpret the existing systems to suit the new definitions.  

I've done some of this for my Buffy-inspired game...just redefining precisly what a demon actual is... it is easy as heck to just think about a magical spell as a demon...where is that thread...

here it is:

http://www.indie-rpgs.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2130


Grospoloner (sp?  how the hell is that thing's name best translated?)  is a perfect example of a demon with some fairly easy Abilities (Lore boost, lethal special damage attack, special move, defensive stuff).  

Shinto-style magic (w/ ofuda and holy water) can easily be represented with a special style of sorcery.  Almost all those tricks are just variations on a sorcerer's basic rituals.  As always, redefining the rituals of sorcery goes a long way to defining the character of sorcery in the setting.

Chi-style martial arts can be thought about in several ways...  Much of it can be creative descriptions for especialy cool or well rolled Stamina checks.  For more powerful stuff, a spiritual Parasite demon can imbue with power but Needs constant practice (martial arts training) and Desires challange (the typical Chi-powered martial artist in Anime is always looking for trouble).

Magical weapons are easily object demons- virtualy all of them in SM have personalities to some degree or manifest special spirits.  Needs and Desires may vary.


As for needs and desires... these are fairly obvious in most circumstances...SM isn't a terribly complex show when it comes to defining demonic motivation.

The sources differ a bit on this, but in Demon Cops some sorcerers and in the SM TV series, most true sorcerers are demon hybrids...even if several generatinos removed- the demon blood gives them their powers.  For someone like Rally who is very closly tied to the Entities, a Pasasite demon representing her darke and molevolent other self is an easy fix.

Kitty's cyborg body (while not supernatural or demonic perse) can be though of in terms of a parasite demon.  It grants Armor, Boost to stamina, special movement... it Desires to be used- she is always pushing her body to extremes...it Needs repairs and maintanance.  Several times it glitches out on her, failing to do what she desires it to....pretty demonic really.  Kitty is likely a Stam7, Will2, Lore 1 character anyway.  







Let me think some more...I'll give you some more ideas...

[bluekabuto]

Great Job! Keep it coming.

As for Grospolona, that's the literal translation - Emperor of swords I believe.

As for all these demons, isn't there a way in Sorcerer to create something "without" having a demon associated to it? I can understand Grospolona or even Jesso (Lum Cheng's spear), but Kiddy's cybernetic Armor coat? Does it have to have the demon association? :(

Next, you'll be telling me that the Graviton has a devil inside... ^_^

[Ron Edwards]

Hi Bryan,

Bailywolf is a bit over-enchanted with the "define everything as a demon" concept. I suggest treating mechanical things as mechanical things, ie, a gun is not a demon who "needs bullets" or some such deal.

In Sorcerer & Sword, I provide a lot of guidelines for effective characters who do not have Bound demons. This is not to say, "Buy my supplement," but rather that if you want a character who doesn't have a demon, it's not as if you're disobeying the rules or anything.

What do you think of the "role-playing anime" material in Demon Cops?

Oh, and you have an excellent opportunity to see what we're talking about with relationship maps. The scenario in Demon Cops, called Sisters, has a relationship map associated with it - and although it didn't make it into the supplement text, it is available on the website in the Errata section (blue menus).

Also, for your own private group, you can play in whatever setting you'd like, but if you are thinking of a commercial venture (ie a mini-supplement), you have to stay away from a direct adaptation of licensed material. IE, Demon Cops is heavily inspired by Wicked City, but it's not the "Wicked City Sorcerer supplement" and I don't use that exact setting or terminology.

Best,
Ron

[Bailywolf]

Don't take the word 'Demon' quite to literaly.  It took me like a year to figure this one out...Ron hammered it home finaly.  Think of a "demon" as any kind of supernormal power which comes with a price attached- and frequently a relationship or personal complication.  In many implementations of Sorcerer the demons are always literal- little scheming imps, sentiant swarms of bees,  huge brass-skined monsters, or demon-hands grafted onto a severed arm stump.

But not always.

Defining exactly what a demon is is part of this kind of thing...

Kiddy's cybergraft upgrade is a perfect test-bed for this kind of thing.

For things like cybernetics- which will always be 'parasitic' in a sense- it is easy to just treat Need as the required special medical enginering a cyborg must undergo peridiocly to keep his implants working in harmony with is natural systems, as well as the constant reapirs a combat cyborg (especialy one a reckless as Kiddy) will require.

Desire is a more tricky issue- perhaps thinking of it more in terms of how the character relates to the implants...Kiddy coming to terms with her rebuilt body is a major part of her story and evolution as a character... she feels her body is alien to her, not a part of her...  

This could be handled in another way.  In Sorcerer and Sword, rules for hybrid characters are introduced.  Take a bonus to a score (in this case Stamina) in exchange for attaching the 'Unnatural' or in this case 'Cybernetic' descriptor to it.  You then take a second Flaw to cover it (or some specific intresting complication).


But keep this in mind- a demon is not always a demon.

[Bailywolf]

Not so enchanted perhaps.  A Graviton is certainly just a powerful gun...one which might require a potent Stamina to fire perhaps, but certainly nothing requiring a demon-style relationship.  

But Libia's triad of robots?  Easy to treat these guys as "demons" (again, not literaly demons, but they have a similar relationship to their "summoner" who built them).   Kiddy's cyborg body grants her some serious power...but at certain human costs...sounds like demonics to me.

[bluekabuto]

Ok -

So if we look at the main characters for Silent Mobius, this is what I am thinking:

Katsumi - Object Demon (grospolona) she doesn't gain the demon until later on in the series. There's also the Demon Medium (sword) that possesses her later on.

Kiddy - Parasitic Demon (cybergraft upgrade) - ok I can see this one, Kiddy struggles against her humanity many times in the series. No complaints here.

Lebia - Object Demons (hewy dewy and louie) - although I really don't see these as being demons, there's no innner tormoil or conflict with them - could be just objects?

Nami - Hmm, tough one. This chick has some issues, but I don't think they fit into the demon catergory.

Yuki - Ok another one, she's an Esper and the demon might be physcologically related, but couldn't these (if she has any) be just a mental flaw?

Lum - Object Demon (jesso - magic spear) - another tough one. Lum doesn't exhibit any types of issues and her spear appears non sentient.

Thoughts, ideas, comments, etc.? Ron - you really SHOULD watch this series!!!

[Ron Edwards]

Hey,

I'll watch it; the local video place has a lot of anime series.

However, here and now, I'm still waitin' on the relationship map description ...

Best,
Ron

[bluekabuto]

However, here and now, I'm still waitin' on the relationship map description ...

Best,
Ron

please pardon my ignorance of Sorcerer and it's mechanics (I am reading though), but what is a relationship map?

[Bailywolf]

Demons need not be sentient exactly, nor need they be nasty or 'out to get' the sorcerer they serve.  It all lies in the way sorcery is defined for a given setting.  I toyed wiht a "Light and FLuffy" sorcerer to run for a mixed group of guys and girlfriends in which 'demons' were real imaginary friends, faaries, goblins, animated teddy bears etc.  None especialy demonic at all.

Lebia- actualy, I'd just treat her robot buddies as yer basic right out ther in your face demon types.  No, they are not in any way supernatural... but they are more of less independent creatures.  Her "sorcery" is all about her technical mastery- the things she can do with technology would seem like pure sorcery to a primitive man...she can create giants from metal to serve her or bear her through the air (building her robots)... she can enter a trance and "jounry to a spirit world" (net diving)...she can work her oracles and learn things no one could possibly find out (hacking)...

Nami- a powerful "sorcerer" (using the sorcery rules) with no bound demons at the start.  She acquires the Kirin Dagger then that sword (white tiger?  can't remeber the name).  Magical wepaons which manifest the spirits of mythical beasts?  Sounds like Object Dmeons.  She has one of the highest Humanity scores in the game I'll bet.

Yuki-  easy enough.  Her Esper powers are a demon within- and one which doesn't obey her conscious orders very often!  A perfect example of a Lore 1 sorcerer with a high Will and only a single powerful demon... her Ylper (or esper) powers.  Where one might think of a demon as an external creature one orders about, with Yuki, hers is a piece of herself- magnified through the esper process.  If she looses all her Humanity, she will become like Annie the Esper Weapon.

Lum- I don't know this character all that much... doesn't her magic involve summoning up huge elemental dragons and such?  Jesso is an object demon of the most benign sort- it hasn't demonstrated a personality, but it may have goals itself...I don't know.  She seems like a pretty basic Sorcerer with an eastern martial arts I Ching kind of of style.