A Christian RPG?

[sdemory]

As someone raised at arm's length from organized religion, this looks intriguing.

Three points:
1) The Millenium comparison is very apt. I think that particular feel, working more within "the evil that men do" would make for a much stronger game than demonic bug hunting.

2) Have you thought about Qlippoth, rather than The Mob? They're creepy, ooky and very much in the scavenger mode, in some cases.

3) I'd like to see actual faith brought into play. I'm big on the internal and external torment thing (as anyone who's looked at Le Mon Mouri knows), and it'd be nice to see the Agents' faith challenged in one way or another, whether through questioning their actions or through incidents which shake their morale. It'd also be good for Agents to be rewarded for keeping their faith, questioning it and having it withstand tribulation. If that's in the game, it'll both be a Christian game (I'd assume, not having any room to speak) and a game that allows some interesting stories beyond blood and thunder.

Sean

[Nathan]

Well, hello again.

I have the new version available, which while still incomplete, is very conversational in tone and explains the most important tidbits as of yet.

I want to know specifically - scene-based resolution? Yikes! (I've been reading Storybones.. heh) It doesn't exactly work yet, but I am still fiddling with it. Specifically, in regards to the miracles, would this work?

I really like the way the Legion has come out in this version. No more information over The Cross as an organization yet, but that will come later.

http://www.mysticages.com/theCross.pdf

So did I still get my "bullets on a mission" action genre fun w/ a more serious tone and struggle? Maybe not yet, but closer. The big catch is that you have to convince the badguy that he needs help (whatever that means) before the Legioneer (heh) will leave him. If he doesn't what do you do? Take them both out? Or what?

You might see a bigger update tomorrow.

Thanks,
Nathan

Thanks,
Nathan Hill

[Lance D. Allen]

Much, much nicer.

Honestly, though, I think there was some merit to the original "Gifts" you had. Gift was the wrong term, I think, but Role would have worked very well. Though I dislike stratified character concepts, something like this, where the group is a team and should work as a team, the idea of roles fits very well, in my view. Have one or more healers, who, rather than learning about guns and fighting (say, only martial arts, and never anything particularly damaging) they learn about healing of the body, mind and spirit instead. I dunno... Maybe it's just me, but I like this idea.

But overall, this is a definite improvement. I'm still much interested in seeing more. The scene-based resolution is funky to me, but I can see it being used to good effect.

One thing, though, is how plainly you state the possible corruption in The Cross. Personal preference, but I prefer a more subtle implication of such things, which allows the GM to decide whether or not he's willing to address the issue. Also, being so plainly stated seems to me that it makes it almost inevitable that players will have their characters questioning every order, which they shouldn't be at first, and even after time, it should only be those which are specifically disturbing. I guess what I'm saying is that the idea of corruption inside of The Cross should be a GM only revelation.

Oh.. And Legend Legion... Maybe Elder Legion?

Keep it up.

[Nathan]

Much, much nicer.

Honestly, though, I think there was some merit to the original "Gifts" you had. Gift was the wrong term, I think, but Role would have worked very well. Though I dislike stratified character concepts, something like this, where the group is a team and should work as a team, the idea of roles fits very well, in my view. Have one or more healers, who, rather than learning about guns and fighting (say, only martial arts, and never anything particularly damaging) they learn about healing of the body, mind and spirit instead. I dunno... Maybe it's just me, but I like this idea.

Cool. I will consider this. The current idea was one I had in regards to scenes. I considered giving a character w/ a miracles gift that sort of power -- to go back and rewrite a scene, but I thought it would be an extremely powerful gift to have. I thought - what if they all could do it with regards to their particular gift?

But overall, this is a definite improvement. I'm still much interested in seeing more. The scene-based resolution is funky to me, but I can see it being used to good effect.

One thing, though, is how plainly you state the possible corruption in The Cross. Personal preference, but I prefer a more subtle implication of such things, which allows the GM to decide whether or not he's willing to address the issue. Also, being so plainly stated seems to me that it makes it almost inevitable that players will have their characters questioning every order, which they shouldn't be at first, and even after time, it should only be those which are specifically disturbing. I guess what I'm saying is that the idea of corruption inside of The Cross should be a GM only revelation.

Oh.. And Legend Legion... Maybe Elder Legion?

Keep it up.

Thanks for the encouragement.

I think my goal has been to get ideas down. I was going to delete the paragraph where I mentioned the corruption, but I just haven't yet. Consider it a placeholder for the time being. Really, your comments have made me think and clarify my intent. Very helpful.

I appreciate everyone's comments. Extremely nice.

Thanks,
Nathan Hill
nathan@mysticages.com

[Clinton R. Nixon]

Nathan,

Odd question, but are you trying to portray real Christian people fighting off demons (normal people, fantastic world) or Christian "super-heroes" - pardon the term - fighting off demons (people with fantastic powers in a fantastic world.)

I just can't quite get a grip on that - your setting looks like the former, but the miracles and prophesy and such look like the latter.

- Clinton

[Nathan]

Nathan,

Odd question, but are you trying to portray real Christian people fighting off demons (normal people, fantastic world) or Christian "super-heroes" - pardon the term - fighting off demons (people with fantastic powers in a fantastic world.)

I just can't quite get a grip on that - your setting looks like the former, but the miracles and prophesy and such look like the latter.

- Clinton

Clinton, you have a good question.

This entirely depends on your point of view. I don't want to "preach" or whatever, but there is a chapter in the New Testament that speaks of gifts God gives his church. People may have one or two gifts, but most of the time, they have a single gift. Many churches strongly believe that these gifts grant supernatural abilities. It depends on how you define supernatural gifts really.

So, for me, the gifts that the characters will have in the game are not supernatural -- they are quite natural. They are normal for a Christian to have. Of course, I am not striving for realism or anything, so I get your point. In reality, gifts seem to translate more as a greater ability to do something. There are some people who cannot preach a sermon period -- they just get stuck thinking about it. There are others who can get up and just preach a well-rounded sermon off the top of their head. They are probably gifted with that ability.

Other people are gifted at other things in the church. I want to simulate that in a more dramatic way within the game. Of course, I may end up going back to a skill bonus or something. We'll see.

So - normal humans, fantastic world.

Thanks,
Nathan Hill
nathan@mysticages.com

[Clinton R. Nixon]

Nathan,

Don't worry about preaching - I was well familiar with the concept. (Nobody's business, but I'm sort of a Bible scholar.)

I get exactly what you're going for, but I think you might be going to far. The gifts of the Spirit are real as far as this game goes, but fact is, no one's prophesying anymore. (As far as we know - you know, that prophesy stuff takes a few years to pan out, not 20 minutes.) I'm stuck on this sort of mechanic right now, but you might want to make it where people do just normal people stuff, but are much better when "calling on the Spirit" or however you want to put it. See Riddle of Steel, or variations of Paladin for examples.

[Clay]

Nathan,

For the demon tail-kicking thing, you might want to look at Frank Peretti's works.  He manifests the temptations and trials we face as physical entities, visible only to the gifted.  The author and I definitely have different approaches to Christianity, but I won't deny that both concept and execution were excellent.

An option that I thought of while reading this thread was to prohibit lethal force and initiating violence to members of the cell.  Killing the evil ones is counter-productive, because it denies them the opportunity for redemption, the ultimate goal of Christianity.

As for the Legion reference, it's Matthew, although I don't remember chapter and verse.  I'm mildly concerned about calling the enemy Legion, given that 7th Sea went down this road. Honestly, mentally substituting Legion for Satan all the time got to be a pain, when we were definitely discussing the same concept.

As far as other RPGs that have gone down this road before, try looking at Sorcerer, which tackles the subject head-on, although admitedly from the other side of the fence.  It sounds like you're going for a very different effect, but I honestly thought that the Humanity mechanic was one of the best tools for dealing with this struggle.

[Victor Gijsbers]

Nathan, in a game based around religion and faith, are you planning to focus exclusively on Christianity? Because an interesting question is: how do other religious (and indeed, nonreligious) groups react to the appearance of the Legion?

If you want to focus on Christianity exclusively, maybe because you think it's inappropiate for followers of other faiths to have the powers needed to fight the Legion, you will miss some interesting themes. (How will Christian and, say, Pagan 'cells' interact when they find out they are fighting the same enemy? Will they be able to see through their differences and work together? What about inter-religious romance? I see a lot of room for interestin conflicts here.) The problem is that I'm not quite sure what you mean with 'a Christian RPG' - is that an RPG meant to convert people to or inform them about Christianity? Is it an RPG where Christianity's basic ethical problems are the main themes? Is it an RPG where a character's power depends on him being Christian? Please enlighten me.