A game based on... ASTROLOGY?

[Xenoheart]

Well, hi there, Forge community. Meet Leo: Israely, fourteen, RPG(And generally a)geek, and without any conception of proper english spelling/grammer.
Seem's you have just met me.

Well, for a big part of my life, i was really deep into mysticem. I read the tarot, mapped the stars, tried alchemy and mastred the Kaballa.
For a little smaller part of my life, i was really deep into role playing games. Exalted, D&D, WOD. The staff you can find preatty everywhere. Even here in the Israely wasteland!
And for an even smaller part pf my life, I was deep into desighning role playing games. This is the now. Or a few weeks back, for the matter.

Well, in the beginning, i tried to go generic. Epic fantasy there, Sci fi there... And than, biting my pencil in frustration, i was struck with inspiration! I thought, well, why not combine my two areas of expertise into one game i can actually enjoy!

And the seed of Zodiac was born. The idea is still extreamly unrefined, but i think in the direction of a modern fantasy game, with an emphasis on astrology, the heavens, and the workings of fate.Wow. it starts to sound like sidreals in the big city.(Oh. wait. Yu Shan is big).

Well, What i have now is some really some quick ideas, but here they are:
      1. The character's face an entity, or a force, known as The Cardinal, who represents the primal force of chaos and entropy in the universe, awakened to balance the desire of god to shape something from nothing. Everything, after all, must have a negative.
      2. Instead of skills or aptitudes, character's will have 12 alighnments, each obviously corresponding to a certain sigil on the zodiac, and each used as a measure for traits that are symbolic to it.(Leo represent's courage and leadership, Geminy representing elegance or intelligance, Scorpio representing cunning... you got it, i belive.). Alternatively,  Alighnments could be used to perform feats of magic, governed by the alighnments keyword or elemant( Leo's keyword is "I will", and is used to command concepts and things, or to improve one's status. Scorpio's elemant is Water, and is used to master water, frost, relaxation, sorrow, or anything that symbolises with water, depending on the weilder of the magic and it's targate.).
      3. Although i have no idea how to do that, i want the system to simulate the ficklness and million pathed nature of fate and destiny. One's traits do not tell how good he is in doing something. They tell what is his potential for being remembred for it, forever written in the stars and the hearts of all man. The higher your trait, the higher is the chance that you will do succseed amazingly at something... but also that you will fail. This way or another, the results will be epic.
      4. Characters will have two traits, represented by numbers(colors? angles? symbols?), called Domicile and Detrimant.  When rollimg the dice(Pulling cards? Throwing stones? Playing rock paper scissors?), more dice the higher is their trait, players gain positive results for rolling a lot of "Domicile numbers", and negative results for rolling lot's of "Detrimant numbers". I'm not preatty sure about the whole thing.
      5. A trait called Arcanum will allow character's to modify her fated hand(That's a more "moody" name for "dice pool"), either adding dice to increase gain, or taking dice to lower risk. The use of arcanum, however, is dangerous. Just like the cardinal was brought into existance to balance god's wishes, so will fate take his "revenge" upon those who defy it, taking/adding an equal amount of dice to the roll of a foe or challange, or to a character's future roll.
      6. Axiomes will allow character's to further rewrite fate by creaing, severing, binding to gether, percieving, or changing the fates of differant things. For a price...

Well, that's about all i've got for now. I will like to see your general opinion about it, but please also concentrate on those questions:

1. Is it a bit... hurtful to do a game in which the enemy is a basterd child of god, called after a priest, who deals with mysticem and astrology?
2. How can i create a base mechanic without resorting to dice? It's a little dull, and i seek something more "in tune" with the theme...
3. Isn't it a little stuiped that a character's traits symbolise both failure and success at the sam time? If yes, how can i deal with it?
4. How should i exactly handle axiomes? I find it difficult to create a mechanic for such a wild ability...

And... that's all. I hope you like it. It's my first try, after all... Please don't verbally abuse me to much...

Good night!

[dindenver]

Hi!
  No, it is not stupid that a high sigil represent the potential for great failure. As you said, it represents the chars destiny, not their skill or luck.
  A standard poker deck is commonly available in the US and is modeled afte4r Tarot, you might be able to us that as a randomizer and keep the cost of materials down and accessible (at least here its a little harder to get tarot cards than it is to get playing cards (you can sometimes get them in line at the market).
  Maybe it might be smart to have the players oppose a group with a strong leader instead of one individual. I do think the idea of a god-like enemy is awesome though...
  Maybe the strength of the alignment is a resource you can spend? You spend it before the randomizer and that way you don't know if it is pass or fail yet. Something like:
1) Declare conflict
2) Declare Alignment involved and any other factors
3) Spend Alignment
4) Randomize (roll dice, draw cards, etc)
5) Success/fail odds should always be the same, but the degree of success/fail should be determined by the amount of alignment spent..?
6) Narrate results...

  I dunno, maybe something like that?

  Good luck man!

[Xenoheart]

Thanks for the reply!
Hmmm... I guess i can use tarot cards instead of dice, using the cards numerical value... but that means you are gonna have 22 differant results when drawing cards, not inclufing the minor arcani. It's kinda difficult to pull a single number out of 22 a considerable number of times. Or maby, you can say that as almost godly beings, the heroes generally succeed at everything they do. Domicile and detrimant are exceptions... But than how do you create a mechanic for dealing with other, equally powerfull beings?

[dindenver]

Hi!
  Well, a US Poker Deck is 52 cards, four suits of 13 cards. Seems like you could use the face value for the sigil and the suit for the outcome (like a 2 might be Gemini and a heart might be success at social action, but failure at economic) something like that..?
  Not sure if that is the way you want to go, but it might be an idea to build on...

[Xenoheart]

Wow! That's extually a great idea, that emulates fantastically the way we read the tarot!
I believe we should expand upon it.

[LandonSuffered]

I don't think there's anything wrong with the themes you've chosen for your game. There are plenty of RPGs out there that will offend one person or another's "moral sensibilities;" if your game was "hurtful" to anyone it would probably be astrologers (hey, I take offense at you assigning "cunning" to Scorpio!)!

I'm much more of an astrologer than a game designer (I've been studding it seriously since 1997, and as a hobby for close to 15 years before that), but I've thought often about incorporating astrology or astrological language into an RPG, if only to introduce the concept to folks, but I didn't really have a good idea how to do it.  Your idea is a pretty good start and I hope you'll run with it.

In answer to some of your other questions: you don't necessarily even need a randomizing factor for a base mechanic. Narration and Karma (see the Forge articles on GNS) can also be used, and Karma might be especially appropriate for a game like this.  For example, if each character sheet had a Natal Chart on it, they could assign a number of points to different houses/signs (based on character creation) to show the "strengths" they were born with...comparing the points in a particular arena with a target number (a la original Vampire/World of Darkness) would tell them whether they succeeded or not.  Something to think about: houses echo the paradigms of zodiac signs, so throwing 3 points into the first house might give you 3 points in fighting/confrontation even if you don't have any points in Aries.

I don't think failure and success be represented with a single roll (or game mechanic check) is bad, especially if you've got a Narrative creative agenda (again, check out the Forge articles).  If you just want to tell a good story, then sometimes failure can be as important or memorable (if not more so) than success.

Here's a thought: at the beginning of each game session, each player randomly checks which houses are being subject to negative/hard aspects and transits and which house is subject to harmonizing/positive aspects. Then all "memorable" game checks in their negative houses become spectacular failures and ones in the positive houses become outlandish successes (non-aspected arenas can simply be minor successes).  The GM can start each session with the players reading their horoscope and saying "hmmm...this week I will have challenges and lessons to learn in the area of finances and relationships...but now is a beneficial time for confrontation." Based on this, the characters will have a guide as to what actions to take depending on what story they want to tell about their character.

I'm not sure how "axiomes" relate to astrology or what you're trying to represent (a different metaphysical concept? Something from Crowley?). But it sounds like a fairly simple metagame mechanic to implement...each character can have a certain number of "fate points" that can be spent to take over narration of the game.  These points may be assigned at character creation (for example Fortune points in James Bond or Top Secret) or at the beginning of each session (a la fate chips in Deadlands) or as a reward for doing well (like experience dice in OTE).

If you want players to "pay a price" for using axiome points, then you can have the character's next success check automatically end in a "memorable failure" regardless of whether or not it would have been a success (this is the wheel of karma "re-balancing" itself so to speak).

I think the interaction of a character's astrological attributes, random transits/aspects, and pushing fate (i.e. using "axiome") can be the basis for some pretty cool gaming.  As far as theme goes, the whole idea of pushing one's fate...thumbing your nose at God or "what has been written in the stars" is nifty enough.  If you take away "the Cardinal" and just pit your players against fate/god/universe you start going down the same anti-hero trail blazed by Sorcerer.

Things to consider: who/what are the characters?  What are they doing/trying to accomplish? How/why do they come together as a group (if they do)?