[Van Dread] Power 19(kind of) / Questions!

[northerain]

This is my Power 19 for my new game, Van Dread. I skipped some questions as I didn't really have an interesting answer for them, nor did I find them relevant to what I want to discuss.
My pitch for Van Dread is
''...the characters are all those insane driven paranormal investigators from those CoC and DG scenarios you played with your friends over the years. Someone decided to let them out, give them guns, and send them to kick supernatural ass. Yes, you can use flamethrowers.''

1.) What is your game about?
It's about fighting the horrific supernatural. Ghost stories, urban legends, tales and old nursery rhymes are all true. There are bad things in the darkness and someone has to stand between them and the innocents. All this with a generous helping of shotguns, chainsaws, muscle cars and ritualistic magick.

2.) What do the characters do?
Characters fight supernatural evil and it's many many minions. They are part of Project Van Dread(PVD), a secretive organization that employs experienced paranormal investigators(recruiting from asylums and correctional facilities). The characters use guns and magick to destroy, banish or imprison ancient(and not so ancient) evil.

3.) What do the players (including the GM if there is one) do?
The players control their characters, the GM does traditional GMing.

4.) How does your setting (or lack thereof) reinforce what your game is about?
The setting is for the most part a twisted version of our world. It provides the characters with the boogeymen they need to fight and the means to do so. The nightmares presented in the setting are horrific and creepy, reinforcing the game concept which is that of horror.

5.) How does the Character Creation of your game reinforce what your game is about?
I'm using a hacked version of Fate(or is that Fate 2.0?). The character creation inherent in Fate is perfect for the character backgrounds Van Dread requires. Each ''chapter''(timeframes in your character's past) details the events that made you who you are and ultimately made society thing you are a dangerous criminal that must be locked up. Character creation also involves a mechanic were characters choose 2 items from their suitcase(this is the suitcase with which they arrived at the correctional facility with) for each chapter of their lives and talk about their significance. This helps a lot with creating interesting characters with detailed pasts. They show the tragic nature of the investigator's line of work and the sacrifices they were forced to make.

8.) How are the responsibilities of narration and credibility divided in your game?
Narration is handled by the GM, for the most part. Small parts can be narrated by the players by using Fate points and while using certain investigation skills.

10.) What are the resolution mechanics of your game like?
I'm using the Fate system for the most part, with a different health/wounding system mechanic, skill tree and dice(d10s)

15.) What areas of your game receive extra attention and color? Why?
Character creation and setting items(monsters, weapons, magick) get the most attention. Character creation receives extra attention because it's inherent in the horror genre that you have to care for the character in order to be afraid for him. Setting is important because it's the main selling point, everything that's cool about Van Dread lies in the flavor of the setting.

16.) Which part of your game are you most excited about or interested in? Why?
I'm really excited about using Fate and some of the mechanics I created. I'm not big on system creation but Fate is truly a great system that does exactly what I want it to do. I'm also excited about the setting of the game, I think the pulp-y feeling coupled with straight up horror is a great match and will make for a truly fun game. Ramming Cthulhu with a Dodge Charger that sports a mounted minigun? Can't lose.

18.) What are your publishing goals for your game?
Self publish it, sell through Lulu.com, IPR and any other available venues.

19.) Who is your target audience?
Fans of the horror genre, be it movies, literature or games. Gamers that like games that are fun but not shallow and are interested in playing something really dark and violent.


Any feedback on what I posted here is welcome. I do have some problems as well, maybe you can help me out.
1. Skills. Man i fucking hate picking skills. I want a skill list for Van Dread, but deciding how to split them up and which ones to include is a bitch. I liked what the Esoterrorists did with it but I'm not sure it works so well(added a bunch of investigation-related skills, like for example ''accounting forensics'').
My main problem is specialisation. Take the skill ''explosives''. Does that include grenades? If it does, this skill includes molotov cocktails, grenades, mines, TNT, etc. What if you just want to play an ex-soldier that can throw grenades but knows jack shit about explosives? Same goes for things like ''Stealth'' vs ''Infiltration''. Do i bundle the two, even though they can have different uses?

2. This is probably something I have to do on my own, but I thought some feedback can be nice. I want to create a solid atmosphere and ''universe'' for Van Dread. Part of that is creating a unique(as unique it can be I guess) lexikon that is consistent throughout the game. What are Van Dread agents called? Are they even ''agents''? Do i call the supernatural threat ''monsters'' or something else like ''nightmares''?

Thank you in advance.

[chronoplasm]

1) I'd think damage from lobbing grenades at people ought to be determined with a 'throw' skill rather than an explosives skill. You don't need to know how the grenade works to toss it at someone; you just need a good arm and the sense to pull the pin first. Hey, maybe you can do some kind of critical fail where the grenade user forgets to pull the pin before chucking it?
2) If the monsters are called nightmares then maybe the agents are called... Dreamcatchers? I know, it's a little cheesy. A lot of people refer to government agents as 'spooks'. Could you call them that? Also, I'd think government agents would have some kind of nondescript codeword for these beasties. I mean, I don't think that the FBI would have a big folder labeled 'monsters' or something like that. They would call them something else that wouldn't attract as much attention.

[northerain]

2) If the monsters are called nightmares then maybe the agents are called... Dreamcatchers? I know, it's a little cheesy. A lot of people refer to government agents as 'spooks'. Could you call them that? Also, I'd think government agents would have some kind of nondescript codeword for these beasties. I mean, I don't think that the FBI would have a big folder labeled 'monsters' or something like that. They would call them something else that wouldn't attract as much attention.

Agree on #1. Throw is a decent skill, works for knife throwing too. Makes my skill list a little bloated but eh...
Now about #2.
Project Van Dread isn't a goverment agency and I really want to avoid that. It's been done with Delta Green and done very well. Besides, I'm not into goverment conspiracies and such. But that's what I was trying to say, yeah. I need to come up with words that fit into a common theme(nightmares vs dreamcatchers, like you said, is a good example). If it was an agency thing, this would be easier. I think goverment and military call them ''boggies''(Half-life uses it).

[chronoplasm]

I find that throw is a pretty commonly used skill when I include it in my games. I tend to tie it into grappling and I use it for tackling as you are "throwing yourself" at the enemy.

How many skills do you have so far?

[Vulpinoid]

Here's my answer to part 2.

If you think the government agency angle has been done well by other products, why not play the reverse?

Why not have the characters be a part of a corporate initiative that gets paid to take out supernatural problems?

A small scale outfit could be reminiscent of "Ghostbusters", or "Angel Investigations". Bigger corporations could handle the nastier threats lingering in the shadows, or could have multiple groups of operatives.

In this way, the game becomes a balancing act between fighting the supernatural, and earning the money to actually pick up those cool items. Silver bullets aren't cheap, and white phosphorus grenades that deal burning damage to zombies and vampires don't come cheap either.

How do you get paid by your client when a vampire crumbles to dust after being slain?

How do you prove to a client that the "Werewolf" on their farm was one and the same as their pet husky?
Operative: "We killed the menace, ma'am, and here's the body."
Client: "That's not a werewolf, that's my dog...YOU KILLED BUBBLES!!!"
Operative: "Sorry, ma'am."

Suddenly, rushing to an emergency becomes more tricky as you have to avoid the cops as well, and you don't have special papers or ID cards to say that you are a federal agent (or something similar). In fact these fedearl agents could be antagonists in their own right.

Just some ideas...

V

[northerain]

I find that throw is a pretty commonly used skill when I include it in my games. I tend to tie it into grappling and I use it for tackling as you are "throwing yourself" at the enemy.

How many skills do you have so far?

I'm aiming for 20. I have 21 and a bunch of skills I know I have to include. Woe is me.

Here's my answer to part 2.

If you think the government agency angle has been done well by other products, why not play the reverse?

Why not have the characters be a part of a corporate initiative that gets paid to take out supernatural problems?

A small scale outfit could be reminiscent of "Ghostbusters", or "Angel Investigations". Bigger corporations could handle the nastier threats lingering in the shadows, or could have multiple groups of operatives.

In this way, the game becomes a balancing act between fighting the supernatural, and earning the money to actually pick up those cool items. Silver bullets aren't cheap, and white phosphorus grenades that deal burning damage to zombies and vampires don't come cheap either.

How do you get paid by your client when a vampire crumbles to dust after being slain?

How do you prove to a client that the "Werewolf" on their farm was one and the same as their pet husky?
Operative: "We killed the menace, ma'am, and here's the body."
Client: "That's not a werewolf, that's my dog...YOU KILLED BUBBLES!!!"
Operative: "Sorry, ma'am."

Suddenly, rushing to an emergency becomes more tricky as you have to avoid the cops as well, and you don't have special papers or ID cards to say that you are a federal agent (or something similar). In fact these fedearl agents could be antagonists in their own right.

Just some ideas...

V

That's inspectres(corporation dealing with the paranormal) to the letter. Not bashing your idea, but it's too close for comfort for me. I didn't really deviate from it too far, Van Dread is an organization, it's just that no one knows what exactly they do, where they get their funding, etc. For all I know it's an agency or a corporation. I just don't want those vibes in my game. But what you described is more or less how Van Dread works. That makes me happy.

[chronoplasm]

What other kinds of agencies are there besides governments and corporations?
Well, theres non-profit organizations (some rich guy just wants to do his civic duty.)
...and...
Theres crime syndicates. I'm not sure why the mafia would have any interest in fighting the paranormal though...
Just suggestions.

[northerain]

I'm aiming towards making Van Dread something mysterious. It probably is a goverment agency(like BPRD maybe), but there are no offices to visit, you don't get a fancy badge or special ID and you're not trained military. The whole point of picking batshit insane investigators to fight paranormal is the fact that they will leave no trace. Insane/criminal gets out(somehow, they can create evidence), kills a bunch of ''people''. No ties to a goverment agency.
Or it could be a filthy rich guy that can't exactly hire black ops to do his dirty work so he gets the next best thing.

[jag]

1. Skills. Man i fucking hate picking skills. I want a skill list for Van Dread, but deciding how to split them up and which ones to include is a bitch. I liked what the Esoterrorists did with it but I'm not sure it works so well(added a bunch of investigation-related skills, like for example ''accounting forensics'').
My main problem is specialisation. Take the skill ''explosives''. Does that include grenades? If it does, this skill includes molotov cocktails, grenades, mines, TNT, etc. What if you just want to play an ex-soldier that can throw grenades but knows jack shit about explosives? Same goes for things like ''Stealth'' vs ''Infiltration''. Do i bundle the two, even though they can have different uses?

If you hate skills, why spend a lot of effort on them?  Skill lists are a way to take different characters and 'genericize' their abilities. It seems your premise would start with a bunch of radically different loonies -- forcing them to all have the same 'stealth' skill would  ignore the fact that one of them thinks he's a spider, while another has "mental powers" which force others to "not notice" him.

Perhaps you should take the trait approach (in Fate or Dogs in the Vineyard, amongst many others), in which the characters declare a pretty open trait ("I have seen beyond the void", "Former Boy Scout", or "Demon Spleen"), and assign a bonus to it.  Then, when that trait comes into play, they get that bonus.  Combined with a very small set of very general skills/abilities (maybe 3-6), will both allow players to know how to resolve most conflicts, but do things in their unique, insane way.

james

[northerain]

I don't hate skills. I like skills! I just hate choosing them. Aspects are in the game, since it's based on Fate. The problem is, it's not necessary to be insane and even then, it's not a focal point in the game. Most of the times you're just burned out and jaded.

[Vulpinoid]

What other kinds of agencies are there besides governments and corporations?
Well, theres non-profit organizations (some rich guy just wants to do his civic duty.)
...and...
Theres crime syndicates. I'm not sure why the mafia would have any interest in fighting the paranormal though...
Just suggestions.

Why not crime syndicates?

A crime gang has claimed the streets of the upper east side for almost twenty years. They control the people through a combination of fear, drugs and corrupt cops. This has been going well for a while and they even consider expanding their turf.

Suddenly they start to lose their home territory. The locals lose respect for the gang, because some of them have started to fear something even worse than the criminals. Some of the junkies have started to gain access to a new high (whether that be vampiric blood that gives them enhanced powers, voodoo pacts that give them the benefits of the highs without the physical symptoms of the lows or withdrawal...). The corrupt cops start investigating murders not associated with the crime gang, and they let the group know that there is now something new on the streets.

Wouldn't criminals go out of their way to fight any menace who starting eating into their power base? Even if that new menace proved to be a supernatural being.

There's nothing to say such a criminal syndicate couldn't be global. The Mafia may hve encountered a similar range of creatures in Italy or on the streets of New York. The Tongs could have chinese lore that helps them face a menace in San Francisco. Van Dread could be a freelance group that hires out their teams to criminals in need of "special services".

Deeper plots could involve a human conspiracy aimed toward taking back the night through the aid of criminals while the supernaturals have control of the legitimate corporations and governments. Such a tale could be very dark indeed.

V