Remarkable player apathy (part 2)

[Eric J.]

I've had another session.  This is it.  My patience is up.  I cannot stand my gaming group.We/They are dissfunctional to the very last letter of the meaning of the word.  Scratchware "walked" through fire.  The slicer guy ignored all social interaction and background creation and complained that he didn't do anything.  I was expected to create a campaign in about 5 minutes.  The powergamer diceided to live-action the combat.  Their complete lack of inovation has brought me over the edge.  I'm falling down an endless abyse of despair.  To back up:

I invited my friends over with the premise of playing Battletech with Cody.  Scratchware would join us in 4 hours, after we had played.  Cody and I had a very short battle and I totally desimated him.  I wanted my brother and I to go through another senerio but Scratchware(who I will hereafter call Charly) and Anthony became relentlessly board and went downstairs to play a video game.  They came back upstairs to discuss what we would be doing (playing a DVD was part of the plan but I'm denied access to my DVD player now so it was out of the question).  Every one complained for about an .67 hours as I managed the household and everything else (Charly complained about pop again and argued with me about what the host's duties are).  

They ignored all of my suggestions and we came to an uneasy compromise to play Risk: 2210.  Anthony, in a barelley vain attempt to destroy gameplay, after compulsevelley reminding me that he was only playing because he had nothing better to do, launched a kamakaze strike to destroy me.  I formed an alliance with my brother and used my charisma to basically destroy the other players' effectiveness.  I've told you the important parts so I'll sumerize that, with the help of my brother, I won.  

We retreated to play Halo (a FPS).  After a while they convinced my to play Star Wars D6.  I threw together a bunch of ideas to create a Harry Potteresk campaign (Harry Potter combines a very very unique setting [school] that I've alalized greatly.  It adds a controlled environment that I think kids can identify with while suspending your belief.   So, 3 Jedi PCs and a slicer are in a school in the Mid-rim.  I allowed Anthony to be a Jedi knight teacher; Charly, a Padawan; and Cody a new studend that would act as a rival.  Though I made several attempts to facilitate gameplay, I gained nothing.  The planet was named Durklass, so that Cody could call it durt clod.  I had a few unexpected Jedi tests that tried Cody's anger controll (P.S. he failed), and a bunch of other stuff that most though brilliant.  

The PCs had no motives, no initiative and no original concepts.  I have come to the CONCLUSION (I am stictly devoted to the scientific method) that our group sufferes from a concept of idiocy and goal inconsistancy.  Either they suck, I suck or it's a compelation of the two.

What all of that was trying to convey was that I'm looking for a gaming group and don't know the first place to start.  I live in a "one-horse town" that has a hobby-shop.  I think that they play D&D sometimes but that is, to me, unplayable.  I believe myself to be the youngest on the sight.  This has little meaning except to facilitate the theory that people my age are not playing RPGs and that my antisocial tenencies are a seemingly unserpassible obsticle.  What do you do?  Do you take forever, then find a group you play with for the rest of your life?  Do you screw to hobby for a while, or go on a heitous (high-ate-us)?

Help?  Any questions? Congradulations if you read all of that, by the way.

[hyphz]

... Charly complained about pop again and argued with me about what the host's duties are ... we came to an uneasy compromise to play Risk: 2210 ...  Anthony, in a barelley vain attempt to destroy gameplay ... after compulsevelley reminding me ... After a while they convinced my to play Star Wars D6.

The sympathy: I think some of those guys deserve a slap.  The less so: I think this is considered off-topic, as it isn't about RPG play, and there isn't really anything that anyone can learn from it.

I threw together a bunch of ideas to create a Harry Potteresk campaign (Harry Potter combines a very very unique setting [school] that I've alalized greatly.  It adds a controlled environment that I think kids can identify with while suspending your belief.   So, 3 Jedi PCs and a slicer are in a school in the Mid-rim.  I allowed Anthony to be a Jedi knight teacher; Charly, a Padawan; and Cody a new studend that would act as a rival.

Firstly, if somebody asked me to run an RPG given 5 minutes, I'd either refuse or run some simple gamist tactical thing.  Anything more involved needs more prep time and agreement with players.  Two things here: did the players agree with the Harry Potter thing, or was it just something you came up with?  And - what were you actually planning to explore?  Just about any game whose premise is "X, Y, and Z are in P; what can happen?" or "X, Y, Z are in P; hilarity ensues" or similar, doesn't work from what I've seen.  (The possible exception being "X, Y, Z are in P; only one can leave")

Though I made several attempts to facilitate gameplay, I gained nothing.  The planet was named Durklass, so that Cody could call it durt clod.  I had a few unexpected Jedi tests that tried Cody's anger controll (P.S. he failed), and a bunch of other stuff that most though brilliant.

Is this sarcasm?  What do you mean they couldn't 'facilitate gameplay'?

The PCs had no motives, no initiative and no original concepts.

What exploration did you give them to do, and what choices did they have in doing it?

[Victor Gijsbers]

Most groups I've gamed with regularly in my life (i.e. all but 1) had a strict rule forbidding snacks and beverages at the table at all...

Forgive me for returning to a subject that was discussed a while back... but I find this a very, very curious statement. In my roleplaying group, snacks and drinks (anything from tea to beer) are always being consumed during play. I have never noticed any adverse effects. And why should I? While one player is playing a scene with the GM, I don't have to do anything active, so why would it hurt if I took a drink? And even if my character were present in a scene, drinking or eating doesn't use a significant part of my brain power, does it? I truly don't see the problem.

Back on-topic. I think your group is nto mature enough for the kind of roleplaying you expect. This is unfortunate, and you could try again in a few years, but there is little you can do about it now. Meanwhile, you might want to check if there are roleplayers anywhere in your vicinity, or you could roleplay on the internet. I'm a bit surprised that there is no roleplaying being done on this forum, by the way - forum-based roleplaying works rather well for a Narrativist game, and we might learn something useful from it for further designs too.

[rabidchyld]

I really am sorry you're having so much trouble.  It's so frustrating trying to deal with an uncooperative group.  You have a few options, though.  

If you haven't tried to talk to them about the problems within the group, that is the place to start.  If you have tried to talk to them already and they are unresponsive, then make one last effort to try to talk to them, just in case they see how serious it is and decide to listen.  

If that doesn't work..just take some time off.  You're not going to forget how to game.  I get the impression you're not in college, which is where many, many people meet their gaming groups.  You may gain some perspective when you're not so close to the situation and figure out ways to prevent it from happening again.  

If you really want to game, go to your local hobby shop.  Those places usually have boards for people to post messages looking for games.  If they don't have that board, ask for one!  Write down what you want to play and see what happens.  

I don't know about anyone else's group, but I can tell you a little about mine.  There are about 15 people in all, and depending on the game we have 3-5 players usually.  We all met in high school or college, depending on the people, and there are a couple of family members in there, too.  We just got a few new players in the last couple of years from around the neighborhood. The people in our group come and go quite often.  Some people like to only play certain games, so they don't come around much, and some people are here every time we game.  It's all very dependent on the game and who is running it.  

Sometimes we go through dry spells when nobody comes to things we have planned...and that's when we take a break for a while.  I get frustrated very easily with no-shows, so I have to take a step back.  

As for the food and drink thing, everybody brings snacks and drinks to the table.  Heck, sometimes we order out and eat dinner while gaming.  It has turned into a joke..."bribe the GM with food".  

I hope everything works out for you.  Don't give up and try to not get too frustrated....

melodie

[damion]

Well, since a great many people have/will tell you to give up and walk away, I'll avoid that.

Other than that your best bet is to run some simple gamist thing that will appeal to your players. It's a shame you don't like DnD. It works well for this. You could try Mechwarrior, since people play battletech.
Once you have them playing, then try to gradually slip in the elements you enjoy.
The idea being that hopefully they will enjoy them also and you can gradually turn to a style of game everyone will enjoy.
Honestly, I would consider this approach above and beyond the call of duty.

Good luck and (since you seem to be a SWGM) May the Force be With You :)

[Clinton R. Nixon]

If I understand you, you decided on a whim to play a role-playing game and spent only 5 minutes in preparation, and the characters had no ties or reason to do anything. (God knows when they were made.)

And it went poorly. And, of course, you blame it on everyone else.

Where's the surprise here?

[Jack Spencer Jr]

Hi Eric.

I'm going to try to speak calmly but directly about this. I hope you don't take too much offense as I am saying this for your own good.

Basically, these player apethy threads have simply become you complaining about your group. I don't see how this is in any way helpful anymore. With the original thread, most of the Forge membership has given you suggestions and now it's becoming redundant.

However, I'm starting to doubt whether you leaving your current group will actually be much of a solution as you'll soon find yourself in a similar situation with a new group.

I'm getting a vibe that you aren't very old (I think in another thread you'd said you're under 18. Exact age I'm unsure and darn if I know where to find it) and I'm guessing that you, and your friends for that matter, still have some growing up to do.

Please don't take this as an insult. This is perfectly natural and it really shouldn't be any other way. But you've got some maturing to do, is all. And so do your friends, if even half of what you've said about your group is true.

Maybe you should take a hiatus from role-playing. Quit cold turkey for a month or until you just want to play again and see what happens then. This may not work, but it might help you figure out exactly what you want out of an RPG session.

"Oh man, I really want to play an RPG again because I really wanna ____."

Find the blank, and you may have the key.

[Eric J.]

Since you effectivelley asked (as well as every one else in virtually every thread I've entered), I'm 14.  I think that heitous is a valid option.  However, I didn't create the thread to complain about my group.  I simply stated my most recent post with a valid question.  That was, " Should I go on heitous and what techniques do you use to find another group?"  Because the question has been answered, I don't think that the valididty of this thread as a resource has not been completelley compromised.  And, as I told them, "I mean no offense when I state that are group is disfunctional.  Disfunctional is a simple term that means "Not functional", though society has made this term more subjective than it really should be.  I mean this as no offense to you, or your potential, but to your ability." Their unanimous reply is, "Good luck finding another group."  I'm sorry if my posts have reflected my mindset while in a stressfull state.  Usually, I'm forced into GMing and it's almost always at my house.  Because of the nature of my positon, as first-born/host/GM/student, I can  come off a little frusterated, and for that I am sorry.

Also, as a perfectionist, I have problems with our RPG group.  This time, after talking to them afterwards and suggesting disbanding, they said that they greatelley enjoyed themselves, and that they would like to continue.  This puzles me as Anthony stated that he played because he had nothing better to do/We played untill 1 AM (I had to fight them with all of my might to get them to stop).

I hope that my inexperience has not been a detriment to the forge and has served as a resource.  And, if you feel the necesity to PM me, I'm wondering how young you thought I actually was.  I promise that no offense would be taken.

[Ring Kichard]

These forums have probably stung a bit to read.

This evening I popped a blister and cleaned it with 90% rubbing alcohol. That stung too. I swore a blue streak and my folks worried and asked what was wrong (I'm probably not much older than you are).

At the risk of upsetting the more delicate posters here, I told the above story to illustrate a point, and I'm considering making it an extended metaphor to offset all the Very Serious advice that people have been giving you.

Basically, these player apathy threads have simply become you complaining about your group. I don't see how this is in any way helpful anymore. With the original thread, most of the Forge membership has given you suggestions and now it's becoming redundant.

Well, yeah, Ditto. I figure that this is the part where you've jabbed yourself in the foot and now get to gnash your teeth and impress the nearest harbormaster with your grasp of English. You probably do need to stop talking about it and just drain that sucker, but if you'd like my sympathy, you've got it. If you'd like a bullet to bite for a while, my email address attached to this comment should work.

I think we've hit a limit of this forum, to some degree. We're all human, and most of us are even accomplished humans, but we're here because of role-playing, not because we're masters of interpersonal relationships. I can't tell you how to fix your friendships and because of that I can't tell you how to fix your role-playing games as long as the two are intertwined.

The last time this came up, Ron seemed to have the right of it when he said that you shouldn't have to game with your friends. If they think otherwise... I guess you'll all get to grow. So, to badly butcher the form of children's rhyme, (do Forgites talk down to their youngers?)

Code Select Expand


On my foot I had a blister.
My game, I have not missed her.
                    It, I've busted,
                         And loudly custed.
                     Let me tell you mister,
                They were all disgusted,
          But my present condition
Would suit Doctor Lister.


[Mike Holmes]

I'll make one comment and then move on, as there isn't all that much to say, really.

On the topic of hosting, many people assume for some reason that the GM should also be the host for a game, and that it should be at his place. I can only recommend most highly against this. The GM and host should be two different people if at all possible. The reasons should be obvious, but somehow people miss it. Mostly it frees the GM to do his thing better.

So, if your players want you to GM, tell them that someone else has to organize it. This will get at least one other player on your side. Also, if you can give the other players out of game responsibilities related to the game, this may help get them to appreciate the game more.

Mike