[Face of Angels] My first time

[Rimke]

Last Saturday I played Face of Angels with some friends at the gathering of frequent visitors of www.mandragon.be, the Flemish/Dutch site for RPG players. I really enjoyed our game, but there are a few things about the game that bug me, or I don't understand. I'll mainly focus on those, because I hope more experienced players can help me out, so next time the game will be even better. So please remember that I REALLY HAD A GOOD TIME playing the game, although most points I'll bring up are things I didn't like that much.

First let me explain a few things about our preparation, because I think it might account for some of the things I didn't like. We had only a short time to play, say 6.5 hours real time play, so our Game Leader (or however you call that, he played The World), asked us to prepare characters and  1 friend and 1 foe in advance. At the day itself we picked another friend and foe from the ones that the other players created. By the way, I don't blame the Game Leader for making this decision, in a short demo you have to compromise sometimes.

Let me introduce the players:

Alex: A male redneck whose main goal was to become the biggest weapon seller in the world. (King of Diamonds, special power: Summoner of beasts)
Jeroen: A male whose main goal (at the end) was to become president of the U.S. (and South America as well) and who was a religious (Christian) person. (Also King of Diamonds, special power: nuclear fusion)
Eva: A female gothic, who became a devil worshipper and anti-Christian and basically wanted to take over the world. (Ace of Spades, special power: Summoner of the ghosts of the death)
Me: A female who wanted to be the greatest talk show host of the world, but more importantly she wanted to become "the power behind the throne" (Queen of Hearts, special power: being able to sense peoples greatest fears and desires)
Remko: World.

At the end:

•   Jeroen was president of the U.S. and a world wide hero, though he had to give up South America. (in control)
•   Alex was the biggest weapon seller in the world but lost his special powers.
•   Eva was dead.
•   I was the biggest talk show host in the world (in control)

Now I'll come to the points that bug me or I don't understand.

•   Nobody really cared about his friends or foes. We outgrew them so quickly (going from high school senior to world leader) that they seemed utterly unimportant. The only important figures in the game were the players and the world.

•   I made a mistake with my secrets (and I was not the only one). They were embarrassing for a high school graduate but not in the later stages of the game. Would it not be more fun if you could change the secret later on?

•   Our card (being ace, king queen or jack) hardly ever mattered. I (a queen) helped where I could, but I think my being Queen only mattered 1 or 2 times. Mostly I had to come up with a trump to win when my ally didn't play one and then being Queen doesn't count. Eva, being Ace, sometimes was able to use her special "going for broke" but mainly because the World thought it was fun I think. I can't remember any case at all where being King made any difference at all.

•   It really matters in what order you help in a conflict. Because (as in our game often happened) you have 2 in conflict and 2 players helping, the one who helps first is at a disadvantage, because the other player knows exactly what card to play to secure a win. At first we agreed a rule where the initiating party had to help first and then the defending party, but Alex and Eva didn't like that. Then we changed to: Just throw a card whenever you feel like it. This will usually lead to: The losing party helps first then the formerly winning party can counter. But of course dirty tricks are very well possible in this case. Just wait till the winning party "helps" with a low card that he wants to get rid of and then the losing party cuts in with a trump! Personally I'd like to have rules for these situations, because it caused some argument at the table which wouldn't have been there if the rules had covered this.

•    Alex was cursed with really bad cards at the end, that's why he didn't want a conflict with the world at the end for very high stakes because he was (rightly) certain that he'd lose. He wanted to play for lower stakes and get new cards. I "helped" in conflicts very often, but when my favourite party was already winning I dumped a low card. I don't blame Alex (or myself) for this, but it seems unsatisfying to me. Playing for stakes nobody cares about just to get new cards or helping when it doesn't do anything really don't add to a more exciting story IMO. Yet a player wants to get rid of bad cards, I really don't know how to solve this problem, but I wasn't quite happy with it.

•   What is the role of The World exactly? Is it supposed to be a conservative force, resisting all changes, or is the role whatever the player of The World feels like?

•   I asked this because The World became REALLY powerful at the end. It had A LOT of cards and thus also many super trumps. It was already very hard to win any conflict against The World when The World was on its own, it became IMPOSSIBLE to win against the world when somebody helped The World.

•   In the last two rounds I think at least 50% of the conflicts (if not more) were decided because of a super trump. I am not sure what to think of those super trumps. On the one hand it is very exciting to hold somebody's super trump and think about the conflict you can initiate (and win), on the other hand it takes away a lot of excitement. (The other party ready for a battle of 3 tricks, first card a super trump, reaction: "O, a super trump, never mind....") In the end of the game I felt super trumps were too important. All final outcomes were decided by super trumps except mine.

Well that's all I can think of for now. I will ask my fellow players to join the discussion here. I hope some experienced "Face of Angel's" players can help me out a bit on the comments I made.

[Rimke]

There is one point I'd like to add that I forgot about:

One of the penalties of using getting a super trump used against you (or using it I guess, although that almost never happens) is that you, from that moment on, never can use a trump as a normal card. A trump from then on should always be played as trump and thus involve special powers.
In our game this was no disadvantage at all. I cannot recall one single time that a trump was played as a normal card, without the use of special powers. I, myself, had the advantage of a not so obvious special power, but even the others always invoked their special powers when playing a trump. A trump seemed just too valuable to play as just a normal card.

[Clinton R. Nixon]

Rimke,

Did Remko let you know it's a game that's not complete? It sounds like you enjoyed yourself, which is great, but I wanted to make sure you knew that it's not a complete game, and isn't in active playtest. Do you know why Remko chose it to play?

Anyway, your first three problems are well-known and expected. The friends and foes one is from a lack of good advice for the players on how to play, especially for the World player: friends and foes should follow you, still playing a part in your life. The game gives the characters tremendous power, but they're still humans, and should have scenes that aren't blowing up cities. The idea that a friend from high school is one of the only people in the world that knows you well - and the whole world fears you - is very humanizing. Likewise, having a human, a mortal, foe who had it out for you when you were nothing, and still does now, and doesn't see you as a god, but as a person, is very humanizing.

The secrets suck as is, and will be jettisoned if I work on the game again.

I don't quite understand why helping didn't work for you, but there are rules about the order of helping.

---

So with the simple answers given, let's talk about what the game is supposed to do and tackle complex questions. The World represents the world as is, and it is a conservative force. The characters are foreign objects and will be disposed of by it. It rises in power as the characters do, because the world is filled with moral outrage at the fact the characters exists. They destabilize it, and the World seeks stability. (That's why they can end up in control: that's a stable situation.)

This is why losing your ability to hide your powers - that is, use a trump without it being used as a power card - is supposed to be bad. I can see, from a gameplay standpoint, how it wasn't.

The one thing I note from your post is that you all were very much optimizing to win contests. That makes sense, but the game works better when you fail, which leaves the game with an interesting design problem.

I'm glad you enjoyed the game, and am very interested in your feedback.

[Rimke]

This will be a very short reply because it is over 4 am here, I'll only address two issues here. The others demand more time and I'll hope to come to them tomorrow.

First: Remko told us the game wasn't finished yet. But the concept intrigued me very much. Reason the more to play the game and post my comments. :-)

On the helping issue: The rules seem to confirm the first idea we used. First the initiator of the conflict recieves help (or not) then the defending party (or not). This is in advantage of the defending paty who will always know which card will save the day. (or just play a crappy card in case it doesn't have such a card). This is fine with me, but some players in our game didn't like it. They wanted a game in which everybody can throw cards at any time. In that case it will resemble the second scenario I described. (Everybody waits till the last moment, the losing party has to throw (OTHERWISE THEY'LL LOSE) formerly winning party can react, this is not always the same as case 1. I hope you understand what I mean, I'd gladly explain otherwise when I am less tired an can make more sense.
I am fine with either case, but I thought there should be a rule. Now I know there is a rule and it is actually like the first rule we used.

The other comments require a better answer than this, which I will give when I am more awake and sober.

[Rimke]

"The World represents the world as is, and it is a conservative force. The characters are foreign objects and will be disposed of by it. It rises in power as the characters do, because the world is filled with moral outrage at the fact the characters exists. They destabilize it, and the World seeks stability. (That's why they can end up in control: that's a stable situation.)

This is why losing your ability to hide your powers - that is, use a trump without it being used as a power card - is supposed to be bad. I can see, from a gameplay standpoint, how it wasn't." Clinton R. Nixon

Does this mean that the world should stronger oppose the characters that use their power openly? Otherwise I don't really see the bad side, except in some specific situations. And what about more subtle powers, like my character possessed. Should that power perhaps be disallowed? Remko, after the game, thought that perhaps my character was not well suited to the game. He thought (Remko please correct me if I quote you wrong) that the game is more suited to power hungry egoistic characters. Because of my "power behind the throne" concept I was not nearly as often in conflict with the World as others. Eva opposed me a few times, but I ended up in control mainly in a very quiet way.

"The one thing I note from your post is that you all were very much optimizing to win contests. That makes sense, but the game works better when you fail, which leaves the game with an interesting design problem." Clinton R. Nixon

I pondered a long time on this, but I think I don't quite understand what you mean. When one party wins a conflict the other party automatically loses and fails to achieve her or his goals, right? Could you please explain to me what you mean exactly?

I always play a new game in a little bit gamist way, so I might get a feel for the system. For me the system also pushed me in wanting to win contests. Otherwise the stakes would probably have been boring, we always worked to make them exciting for both parties and so both parties (of course) wanted to win. I remember one time (in the last act) where The World used a Super Trump against Alex, but still granted him his stakes (becoming the biggest weapon seller in the world), as a price he took away Alex' special powers though. A resolution I believe everybody felt satisfied about. I think the game does not work that well as a team game, every player is very much on its own and wants to conquer the world in one way or another. This was how our game went anyway, except maybe for my character.