[Compass Gods] New territory

[Simon C]

So I recently playtested this really tentative game idea I had called "Compass Gods" (for now at least).  There's a thread about it at the Free RPG Bakery, but I'll explain it again here.

---The Rules---

It started as a kind of Exalted thing - a game about the price of power, what to do with it when you have it, what happens when you have to much, the impossibility of giving it up, and all that stuff.  The characters are kind of demi-god people.

Play starts by defining the four compass points of the world.  Players take turns naming the power or idea associated with each point, and the GM gets any leftovers.  In the game we played, the compass points were "Wind" "Growth" "Decay" and "Lies". 

The the players get four coins, and four coloured stickers.  The colour of the sticker represents one of the cardinal points, so, for example, red is growth, and blue is wind.  The players choose which colours of stickers they;re going to take, and they put them on their coins.  They can choose to put one on each side of a coin, and leave one coin blank, or whatever combination they like.

At the start of play, they toss their coins onto the table, reading what colours come face up.

Play is mostly kinda freeformy, and most of the resolution is Drama.  The GM's job is twofold.  Mostly it's to just make the world work.  NPCs react to the characters, rocks fall, and so on.  The GM says what's possible, and what's not. Of course, it's impossible to do this without some kind of ulterior motive.  The GM's motive is to get the players to spend coins. 

Players spend coins when they want to change the world.  Spending a coloured coin means changing the world in a way that matches with the associated power.  "Wind" might mean a mighty wind blows away a tent town, or guides an arrow.  "Growth" could be a tangle of thickets or something.  If the coin doesn't have a sticker on it, it can be used to change the world with just the things a normal human can do.  If two of your coins show a matching colour, you have to spend them both, and get an appropriately powerful effect.  Something really earth shattering.  Normally, once you've spent all your coins, you get to cast them again.  However, you can permanently spend a coin to get a permanent effect.  For example, in the game the player spent a coin permanently to guide his arrow.  We decided that his bow was now a "god bow", and it would always hit its target.

When you change the world with a coin, you have a choice.  You can choose an "unintended consequence", in which case another player (or maybe the GM) comes up with an unintended consequence of the world changing in that way.  Otherwise, you can gain a new sticker (or if the coin spent had no sticker, you gain a new coin).  New stickers are good, because they increase the power of the character, but they're also bad, because they mean you're less able to affect the world in a normal, human way. 

Characters leave the game in one of three ways: They run out of coins by spending them all permanently, in which case they die; They run out of stickers by permanently spending their last coin with a sticker, in which case they become human, or they cover all of their coins in stickers, in which case they become a kind of god. 

--The Game--

Playing was pretty fun, but the game's got some pretty serious holes.

The compass points were really fun in the game, and provided a great framework for building a setting in play.  There was an "Emperor of the East" who is the king of lies, and an "Emperor of the West" who's the Chief of the Winds.  He had the best line in play "Truth is like the wind - it blows even if you choose not to hear it".  So it was cool imagining a world where the four concepts we'd created were the defining precepts.

It's really weird having so much power as GM.  My instincts were always to go to dice, but there were none.  Instead, I was forced into making judgements - no, that shot's impossible, yes, he will accept your offer.  It was kind of thrilling and kind of hard.  I had to trust that the player would use coins to change anything he wasn't happy with.  I don't know if this is a problem with the game, or just something I need to learn how to play.

It was kind of draining just inventing setting on the spot, with zero prep.  I don't know that the game requires zero prep, but I liked being totally able to feed off the player's goals.  We knew nothing about his character except the coins at the start of the game, and it was kind of cool that way.  We learnt about him as we played.  I might make that a rule.

There were a few problems with gaining new stickers, coins and things like that.  It just needs some more playtesting to figure out what works the smoothest.  We talked about what colour of sticker the player should get.  I felt it should be the player's choice, but oddly the player felt a random roll would be better.

The Biggest Problem:

Here it is, the reason I'm posting here.  I don't know how to fix this.  Blank coins let you change the world in a way that a normal human would be able to.  However, players can already kinda do that with the normal Drama resolution.  If someone doesn't want to do something, you can argue and cajole until they do, in character.  You don't need to use a coin, and it feels really artificial to make it so you do.  I want the "human" coins to be required for interacting as a normal human.  The idea of the game is to force players into situations where they have to choose between putting up with things they don't like, or change them with a coin - possibly using their godlike powers, with the ensuing consequences.  The human coins need to be useful, but I'm not sure how to make that the case.

[Filip Luszczyk]

Oh, it all sounds really cool.

I have a couple of suggestions:

Blank coins let you change the world in a way that a normal human would be able to.  However, players can already kinda do that with the normal Drama resolution.

So, don't let them change the world just like that with normal Drama resolution. Create choices instead.

Say, I want to score a nice clean head shot to kill the Emperor of Lies who is just about to decapitate my brother-in-arms at the other side of the battlefield. I could spend my Wind Coin, and change the world (i.e. make it free of the Emperor) with my Butterfly Arrow technique. But, I've already spent the coin.

So you say: "Forget it, that shot is impossible for a human."

And I say: "Nah. Of course normal human can achieve something like this, trying hard enough. Look, I'll show you how." And I spend the coin, and score the kill by a combination of sheer human heroism and luck. Here, it's not as much doing it the human way, but rather defining what humans in this world are actually capable of.

Or else, I can say: "You're right, that shot is totally impossible for a human. Oh, well... Good bye, my friend!" and the Emperor decapitates the guy. No arguing or other crap, I had my choice.

Characters leave the game in one of three ways: They run out of coins by spending them all permanently, in which case they die;

I don't really see why I'd want to permanently spend my last coin. But what if I could permanently spend coins to cancel the consequences proposed by the GM?

So I spend my Wind coin to head shot the Emperor with my Butterfly Arrow technique. And you say: "Great, but you know how a movement of butterfly wings can set off a tornado on the other side of the world? Well, you just did, and your home village will be swept from the top of the mountain in effect, your relatives falling into a great rift to meet their end."

But hell, of course I don't want this to happen. So I say "Nu-uh, they don't!" and I spend my Wind Coin permanently, and the tornado sweeps through the village, but no one gets hurt.

We talked about what colour of sticker the player should get.  I felt it should be the player's choice, but oddly the player felt a random roll would be better.

I say, let some other player decide what kind of sticker you get. "Man, you sure were deceptive in the last couple of scenes. Here, have a Yellow Lies Sticker."

[Simon C]

Thanks for your reply.  You've given me a lot to think about.

Here's where I'm at with blank coins:

The way you suggest doing it works, but I feel like it's quite a fine distinction.  It's basically the GM's judgement when they're going to "Tax" a coin from the player.  I think also it doesn't really get to what I want the blank coins to be for.  Possibly I didn't explain that very well.  Spending a blank coin is how you express the humanity of your character.  It's for making a connection to NPCs, for interacting with the world in a way that doesn't change it irrevocably, for enacting change without damage.  I think that the blank coins need to work in a fundamentally different way to the coloured stickers.

Step One for that is changing the "unintended consequences" rule for blank coins.  Instead, I think there should be some beneficial extra to using a blank coin - like it somehow creates a connection with an NPC, or something.  That might be hard to keep track of in play, and I'm not sure I really understand how it would work.

Step Two is changing what blank coins do.  I really want this to be a clear and distinctly seperate thing from what can be done through Drama.  My feeling is that it's something to do with interactions with NPCs - that blank coins have a special use on NPCs - changing things about them, and so on.  They're not about changing the world, they're about changing people, either yourself or other people in the world.  Does that make sense?

[Filip Luszczyk]

So, using coins with stickers:

-Changes the environment (but doesn't affect characters, unless in a direct, physical manner).
-Results in an unintended consequence or gaining a new sticker (which brings you closer to the transcendence character ending).

(Is the consequence presented to the player before he makes the choice? It would make sense to me...)

Using blank coins, in turn:

-Changes people (but doesn't affect the environment physically and directly, only via the possible consequences of their further actions).
-Gives some other choice, with one of the options adding a new blank coin (which delays both the transcendence and death character endings).

Since gaining a new coin seems powerful, it seems to me the other option should be quite beneficial for the player, though not necessarily for the character. You choose between yourself or others somehow?

So, maybe I can spend the Wind coin to head shot the Emperor, or spend a blank coin to appeal to his compassion and make him spare my brother-in-arms and stop the battle? I affect another character through my humanity and change his ways, potentially affecting the world as a consequence (i.e. the war stops). Or else, the Emperor spares my comrade but doesn't stop the battle, but seeing I got just this little bit I grow myself, build a stronger drive to end the war and gain a blank, human coin?

Something along those lines?

Also, another thing came to my mind - it seems like the game might potentially lack direction. You define four concepts for the world and create the characters by picking stickers, and it's all very sketchy at that point, right? Now, what to do with all that? I imagine if somebody at the table doesn't have a good idea and doesn't push in that direction, it might lack a good ignition spark.

What if for each of those fourr concepts, each player defined some motivation/goal/dream/destiny/best interest/whatever for the character?

What if the GM defined some kind of world-wide issue for each concept?

Do you expect to have it written in a playtestable form soon? If I had step by step procedures and a good opportunity, I'd playtest the thing.

[Filip Luszczyk]

Another thought about using blank dice:

What if the player could spend those coins to change people by teaching them things about being human, or to learn from them?

Say, I spend the coin to teach the Emperor that bloodshed is the solution that causes only regret, and he spares my friend and withdraws his army. Or, I learn that words alone can't stop human cruelty, and the Emperor decapitates my friend, but I gain a new coin along with the lesson.

Possibly, keeping a list of Lessons On Being Human for each character and important NPC could work - thought I'm not sure whether it would be good for these to have any mechanical impact, save possibly providing a menu for lessons that could be gained or transferred via coins.

Also, maybe once the character transcends to godhood, he or she could apply some of lessons learned to the world at large?

[Simon C]

So, using coins with stickers:

-Changes the environment (but doesn't affect characters, unless in a direct, physical manner).
-Results in an unintended consequence or gaining a new sticker (which brings you closer to the transcendence character ending).

(Is the consequence presented to the player before he makes the choice? It would make sense to me...)

Using blank coins, in turn:

-Changes people (but doesn't affect the environment physically and directly, only via the possible consequences of their further actions).
-Gives some other choice, with one of the options adding a new blank coin (which delays both the transcendence and death character endings).

Since gaining a new coin seems powerful, it seems to me the other option should be quite beneficial for the player, though not necessarily for the character. You choose between yourself or others somehow?

So, maybe I can spend the Wind coin to head shot the Emperor, or spend a blank coin to appeal to his compassion and make him spare my brother-in-arms and stop the battle? I affect another character through my humanity and change his ways, potentially affecting the world as a consequence (i.e. the war stops). Or else, the Emperor spares my comrade but doesn't stop the battle, but seeing I got just this little bit I grow myself, build a stronger drive to end the war and gain a blank, human coin?

Oh man, that really nails it for me.  Your restatement totoally makes clear the goal I had.

Your comments about the play maybe being a bit directionless are well noted too.  I think I fixed that with a few details of the setting:

- There's a big palace in the middle of the world, from where the Empress governs.  The Empress has just died.

- The PCs are the only characters with this godlike power

- The PCs are indelibly marked by their power in a way that is really hard to diguise.

These details are kind of supposed to force the characters into situations where the're forced to make choices.  Everyone in the world is trying to use the characters for their own ends, and everywhere they go they can't help but be drawn into games of power.  Even choosing to do nothing is a valid thematic choice when you have the power to change it.  I'm not sure how I should translate those specific setting elements into game rules though.  Maybe just stating that these things must be the case in the world?

I'm working on a playtest draft now, and I'll let you know when it's done.  Thanks for the offer!

[Filip Luszczyk]

What if there was a DitV-style "games of power" generation system then, for coming up with the situation that the characters get entangled in?

Also, is there no other magic in the world other than that the characters wield? Otherwise, how to deal with situations in which the group gets into conflict with demons, spirits or monsters of inhuman power, when it comes to resolution?

[Simon C]

Finally got around to putting together a playtest draft.  It's available for comment here:

http://www.rpgbakery.com/forum/comments.php?DiscussionID=55&page=1#Comment_299

Quite a few changes from the original version.

[Filip Luszczyk]

I have a couple of questions:

When I spend more than one coin and decide to make the effect permanent, are all those coins permanently spent or just a single coin? Also, is it an exclusive option, or do I still get to choose between a new sticker or consequences?

Am I right that if I have more than one blank coin available, I don't have to spend all of them at the same time?

Also, there's nothing about character endings in the document. Do they stay the same as explained above?

[Simon C]

Very good questions.

My feeling is that if you permanently spend multiple coins, they're all spent.  That's a pretty dramatic character change, but I think the level of change in the world is significant enough to warrant that.  You still get to choose sticker or consequences.

You're right that you don't have to spend muliple blank coins.

Ooops! I left off the character endings.  Yes, those stay the same.

Sorry the playtest draft is so rough.  I was focussed on getting the mechanics down on paper, and didn't really talk much about how the actual playing of the game works.  Partly that's because I'm still figuring out how to GM the game, and what the emergent properties of the rules are.

[MikeF]

I like this idea very much too - elegant and simple but has the potential to create quite powerful stories, depending on the nature of the four compass points chosen. For some reason I am reminded of the attributes of In A Wicked Age - Covertly, Directly, For Myself, For Others, With Love, With Anger. I'm not sure if those are too abstract for the sorts of 'compass points' you're envisaging.

Like Filip I wonder about whether there is any other magic in the game? On reading the playtest document I immediately wanted to give the GM coins as well, as a way of allowing him to introduce conflicts and hazards into the story which the PCs have to resolve. Perhaps there could be a mechanism for coins to pass to the GM when they have been used, so that he can reintroduce them into the story as problems. Kind of a 'balance of the force' mechanism - for every good action performed with the coins the GM is able to perform a bad action at some later point - and because that particular power would have been used the PC would have to resort to some other method for resolving the conflict. E.g. a PC uses 'Wind' to batter down the walls of his prison cell, but later comes up against a terrible storm while battling the King of the East. By that point the PC has used his Wind power, and would have to find another solution to the problem. Just a thought, I might be way off what you want to achieve.

Michael.

[Simon C]

Hi Mike,

My feeling is that the compass points work better when they're more concrete.  I haven't tested that in actual play though.

I've thought about a "coins passing to the GM" thing, but I've not gone with it for a couple of reasons:

The GM at the moment has complete authority over the world.  Making some things require a coin spend seems to restrict that, and makes the GM's job more complex, deciding when a coin is required.

The decision a player makes when spending a coin is "is what will happen if I don't change this better than what might happen if I do?" Adding a layer of decision making on top of that complicates the issue I think.

Thanks for your interest though, I really appreciate feedback like this, because it helps me define the exparience I want from the game.