Temptation and RPGs

[screwtape]

hello!
i've been a member of Story-Games.com for about a month but now that i'm trying to work on my RPG idea with renewed vigor, i was directed here for a more workshoppy attitude towards making games.
so here goes...

i have a game skeleton of about 2-3 pages of a game based on The Screwtape Letters by C.S. Lewis.
the idea would be for 6 players, 3 of which play humans in some sort of situation, the other three play their respective Tempters, twisting and obstructing the human's goals.

i think i have a good mechanic for the character creation and the conflict resolution. but so far, it seems like i have no mechanic to help the players move the story to the next conflict.

what kind of options do game designers have for driving plot along?

[soundmasterj]

Basically, I would entertain two lines of thought. Me having never written a story game, you might want to look for other opinions though.

1. Reward Mechanism: Reward players for furthering the plot. Say, give 1 Point of PURE METAMECHANICAL GOLD to every protagonist focusing an obstacle and to every antagonist creating one. Or: make sure every use of the conflict resolution system furthers the plot and reward everybody invoking the conflict resolution system.

2. Character Creation: Make sure that characters created in themselves promote adressing the premise. Make sure every character created has some issues that will keep him unstable. For conflict, you basically need only 3 things: at least one person and at least two conflicting drives. You could spread the conflicting motives over different persons or keep them collected.
Say, Ingolf wants to make his wife happy and a pet lion. His wife wants nothing but a quiet home. Now, the antagonist pays X story tokens or whateveras and introduces his new character, Ted, a tiger cub. Story Gold lies ahead!

That what you´re looking for?

[Ron Edwards]

Hello, and welcome!

I suggest that a conflict resolution procedure that does not "move the story forward" is not actually resolving conflicts. Can you describe what you have in mind? I'm especially interested to know what fictional content lets the group know that the conflict resolution procedure needs to be employed.

Best, Ron

[Dementia Games]

A lot more detail is needed, indeed, but I do like what I hear so far. 

[screwtape]

ok so i tried this once and the computer died so here goes again.
the character creation is based on Screwtape's assertion that a person is "a series of concentric circles, his innermost being his Will, his Intellect coming next, and finally his Fantasy"
the Will is the true heart of a person and when the Virtues reside there they are acted upon automatically. when they are in the intellect, they are admired and justified but not automatic. when they are in the fantasy the human imagines he embodies such an attitude but it really has little to nothing to do with his life.   the same goes for the Vices. a tempter cannot expect to simply banish all the Virtues from all three circles but must coax them out towards the Fantasy while pushing the Vices inwards at the Will. so if the tempter succeeds, the human patient believes himself to be virtuous while actually embodying a completely different set of priorities.
there are two people involved in creating each patient personality. the Patient and Tempter. the Patient begins by choosing 3 of the 7 "heavenly virtues" and the Tempter chooses 3 of the 7 "deadly vices" and they place them on the circles as they like, with one of each on each circle. for instance:
The Patient, Benjamin, has his virtues set in the circles like this:
will              Humility
intel.             Temperance
fant.             Kindness
And Toadwomp, his assigned Tempter has judiciously pushed these Vices into Benjamin's heart.
will              Envy
intel.              Sloth
fant.              Lust

we now have two items that the character acts on instinctually, (humility/envy) two things he admires or justifies, (temperance/sloth) and two things he believes are big players in his life but in reality he's all but eliminated them from his life.

the conflict system works on that, a temptation works by either attacking a virtue, advancing a vice, or attacking a virtue with a vice. i also set up the die pool system so that a virtue in the will is very difficult for the tempter to touch and a vice in the same place is a major stumbling block to the Patient.
                    Tempter    Patient
Virtue on circle 1   1 d6   3 d6
Virtue on circle 2   2 d6   2 d6
Virtue on circle 3   3 d6   1 d6
Vice on circle 1   3 d6   1 d6
Vice on circle 2   2 d6   2 d6
Vice on circle 3   1 d6   3 d6

four dice are rolled in a conflict plus various advantage and helping dice for both sides.

the results of the conflict will most likely leave a lasting effect on the placement of virtues and vices in the circles.
like if a patient loses a conflict, she may now have Lust moved from out of her intellect into her will and she suddenly starts acting on it as a matter of course.

i hope this makes sense. and thanks for the encouragement.
-dan

[soundmasterj]

You described conflict mechanically, but what does it mean? What do we narrate before and after we roll dice? Could you give an example of a c onflict and a followup conflict?

[screwtape]

this is a rough idea, and i'm fully ready to accept that the way it's set up might be the issue as to why i'm having issues...
but  i'll try to show you one conflict based on the character above:

Benjamin, guided by his Humility, resolves that he ought to go to church to learn more about his new-found faith.
Toadwomp has two options:

1.   Twist the intent: Humility
Toadwomp lets Benjamin go to church but distracts him by pointing out all the other parishioners out of style clothing. He congratulates Benjamin on how "generous" and "humble" he is for associating with such people. (Toadwomp earns himself a philology die(d4) as voted by the group)
   Toadwomp is trying to twist Benjamin's Humility which is in the first circle, the Will, so he will have only one d6 available while Benjamin has three. However, Toadwomp earned a Philology die as well.

2.   Interfere with the action: Sloth
Toadwomp decides attacking Benjamin's Humility is too risky. So he uses the Sloth in circle 2 to keep him warm and contented in bed on Sunday morning. He sacrifices the Philology die though because Benjamin isn't really listening to reason this early in the morning
   Because Sloth is a circle 2 Vice, both Toadwomp and Benjamin have 2 d6s each

at first this sounded great to me. but then i created three new characters and the saw the character entanglements just blossom. however, with that entanglement came the issue of how exactly do i frame it.
anyway here are those characters:

   Kelly                        Rod                        Jane
Red State Hottie.                   Bad boy                     Secret stoner
C1: Chastity/Pride               C1: Humility/Lust                C1: Kindness/Sloth
C2: Humility/Wrath                 C2: Kindness/Wrath               C2: Patience/Lust
C3: Temperance/Sloth               C3: Diligence/Envy               C3: Diligence/Wrath
   Dating Rod                  Dating Kelly                  Kelly's Best Friend
Doesn't know about Jane's pot smoking   Thinks Jane is cute, too      Sells pot to Rod sometimes. On the down low.

It's right there, at heart (meaning circle 1) Rod is the exact opposite of Kelly. Her intent to stay "pure until marriage" mixed with her arrogance is surely going to grate against Rod's intent to be in her panties and his clear knowledge that neither he or she are all that important to anyone else. Easy conflict there.
Also, Rod who thinks (circle 2) Kindness is a favorable trait to have will certainly be attracted to Jane's true Kindness (circle 1). And Jane's view (circle 2) that Lust and sex aren't really the worst things in the world may lead her to council Kelly towards giving it up to Rod.
The conflict is there. No question about that. My issue is how I allow the human characters to interact without making that the focal point of the game. I want the gameplay to focus on the Tempter/Patient relations, not Patient/Patient. However I still want the humans to be able to influence one another both positively and negatively.

[soundmasterj]

To be honest, I don´t quite grasp your mechanics, but this semms easy:

The conflict is there. No question about that. My issue is how I allow the human characters to interact without making that the focal point of the game. I want the gameplay to focus on the Tempter/Patient relations, not Patient/Patient. However I still want the humans to be able to influence one another both positively and negatively.

Have temptation always work in interaction. Lust, it´s obvious. I tempt your sloth when you wanted to do something for Kelly.

Or, and I like this one more, only allow for 3 physical persons and let them be the tempters. A tempts B tempts C tempts A. Like, Player 1 uses Character As vice of envy to tempt character B.

[Dementia Games]

I think I get the gist of the system and concept.  This is definitely an intriguing idea that is no doubt going to prove a challenge to implement.  It sounds like we're working on the assumption that a patient with a virtue or vice in the Will circle is literally going to automatically follow it until opposed, is that correct?  That may be putting it too simplistically, I don't know. 

I really like the potential for interaction here.  Too, for those interested in the Judeo-Christian concept of demons (as tempters rather than possessors, in this case), it provides a potentially awesome vehicle for exploring the ideas involved.  Probably best of all, though, if implemented effectively, the game could hold very true to C. S. Lewis' idea, especially if plenty of flavor from the stories is thrown in.

I'd like to hear more about the philology die and whether there is some working equivalent available to the patient for resistance, assumedly dependent on narration.  That area I'm not clear on.

Before going any further though, can you give a walkthrough example of how one conflict, based on the characters you just posted, is resolved?  I'm talking from the GM to the players, onward.  I'm curious to see how you envision these elements working.