just throwing an idea out there.

[causticbuddhist]

I've been toying around for sometime now with game mechanics, so I thought I would throw something out there that I cooked up tonight and see what kind of input I get back:

Die Types:
D10 – Ten sided dice will be used as Fate Dice for Stats, Karma and Skills.
D6 – Six sided dice will be used as Fate Dice for Bonuses to Positive or Negative Fate rolls.

Dice Pools:
Range   Positive Fate Pool   Negative Fate Pool

1                  1                                  3
2                  2                                  3
3                  2                                  2
4                  3                                  2
5                  3                                  1

Open Ended High:
   All dice that have rolled their highest number shall be rolled again and added to the original number for its final value.

Conflict Resolution:
   The highest number generated from the Positive Fate pool shall be compared to the highest number generated from the Negative Fate pool.  With the following results:
         Positive Fate > Negative Fate                      Success
         Positive Fate = Negative Fate                      Hand of Fate
         Negative Fate < Negative Fate                      Failure

Hand of Fate:
   In the event of a tie between Positive and Negative Fate, roll 1d6

                     Result   Action
                           1,2          Failure
                           3,4          Reroll Fate Pools
                           5,6          Success

Bonus Dice:
   Bonuses may be added to either the Positive or Negative dice pools, these dice are d6 and Open Ended.
   Bonus Dice are limited to 5 dice per pool.

Karma Dice:
   Karma Dice maybe added to either pool (from any character to any other character).
   Karma Dice are rolled again and the result added to the previous for 9s and 10s.
   Karma Dice are limited to 5 dice per pool.
   Karma Pools refresh every game session.

Determining Roll:
   Add the Skill Pool and the Stat Pool dice.
   Add any applicable Bonus Dice.
   Add any applicable Karma Dice.

Example:

Character A
Stat A – 3 (3d10/2d10)
Skill A – 2 (2d10/3d10)
Karma – 3
Item/Advantage/etc... (2d6 Positive/+)

Positive Pool = Skill A + Skill A + Bonus (5d10+2d6) = 15, 12, 5, 8, 3, 1, 1
Negative Pool = Skill A + Skill A + Bonus (5d10) = 13, 5, 6, 6, 3

15 > 13 = Success

[causticbuddhist]

And just to show ya that good proof reading is required.

         Positive Fate > Negative Fate                      Success
         Positive Fate = Negative Fate                      Hand of Fate
        Negative Fate < Negative Fate                      Failure
         Positive Fate < Negative Fate                      Failure

[greyorm]

Greetings!

First, please note these are observations, not judgments (except for the one I clearly note!).

My first observation is: that seems to be rolling a lot of dice from a whole lot of different places on various character sheet(s). You have Skills, Stats, Bonuses, Karma, two results to track IN ADDITION to rerolling and adding numbers to a not insignificant number of those rolled dice. Why so complex? (In your example there are twelve dice being rolled, three of which were rerolled, but not including anyone else's addition of Karma dice to the mix.)

Why a positive and negative pool? That is, how are opposed rolls handled (ie: when you roll against an opponent)? Do you only roll against yourself when attempting an action, or do you roll against opponents in conflicts?

If the latter, that would seem to create three different resolutions before arriving at a result: comparing your own positive and negative pools for success and failure; your opponent comparing his own positive and negative pools for success and failure; then comparing your and your opponent's success/failure to decide the final result.

Can you decide to roll Karma dice after success and failure have been determined? (which would create another step for resolution and possible recalculation of the previous steps)

I do like the idea you have for Karma: that someone else can roll a Karma die for your character and give it to either the positive or negative pool. That's sweet. However, I do not understand your meaning "Karma Dice are rolled again and the result added to the previous for 9s and 10s." Does this mean you always roll a Karma die twice, and only use the highest result? Also, can you add your own Karma dice to your own roll?

Finally, the most important question I have for you: how do these mechanics support your game's vision and help it express the kinds of actions, results, and overall play experience you desire to evoke with it? That is, what do you want these mechanics to do for your game other than provide a result?

Also, what's your name? It makes discussing things much easier. (I'm Raven, BTW.)

[causticbuddhist]

My first observation is: that seems to be rolling a lot of dice from a whole lot of different places on various character sheet(s).

I was thinking the same thing, of course I've always been a fan of having a lot of dice to roll (probably from my love of Shadowrun).  Something about all those jumbling dice scattered all over the floor.

In reality these numbers are tentative for now resulting in dice pools ranging from 2 - 16 dice for each pool, or a minimum of 8d10 rolled minimum (skill and stat only) to 18d10+10d6 rolled if all 5 Karma and  5 Bonus dice are added to both pools.  My initial thought was that this would provide a good random probability on a core system not involving a set difficulty level.

Why a positive and negative pool? That is, how are opposed rolls handled (ie: when you roll against an opponent)? Do you only roll against yourself when attempting an action, or do you roll against opponents in conflicts?

I'm seeing opposed rolls being handled by the addition of bonus dice (ie...Armor provides 1-5 Bonus dice to the attackers Negative Fate Pool) or possibly removing dice from the Positive Fate pool (which might be a better choice to reduce the number of dice rolled).

Can you decide to roll Karma dice after success and failure have been determined?

I think the mechanic I will use for this will be Karma has to be declared before the initial roll, unless you spend a permanent Karma point to change the outcome of an already decided roll.  With the basics I have written up for character creation Karma would start no higher then 3 and max out some where around 4 (of course that's all up to debate right now).  So Karma would be a valuable commodity and not used to change outcomes lightly.

I do like the idea you have for Karma: that someone else can roll a Karma die for your character and give it to either the positive or negative pool. That's sweet. However, I do not understand your meaning "Karma Dice are rolled again and the result added to the previous for 9s and 10s." Does this mean you always roll a Karma die twice, and only use the highest result? Also, can you add your own Karma dice to your own roll?

To make Karma dice that much more impressive, I decided to Open End the dice on the two high numbers.  ie...Rolling a 9 or a 10 on a Karma dice calls for an additional d10 to be added to that Karma dice. 
So rolling a 9 would minimally result in a 10 and rolling a 10 would result in minimally an 11.
Of course I haven't given consideration to if the rerolls themselves are Open Ended or not (ie..d10 result equals a 10, reroll of a 9, reroll again for a 6)

And yes you can add Karma dice to your own rolls.

Finally, the most important question I have for you: how do these mechanics support your game's vision and help it express the kinds of actions, results, and overall play experience you desire to evoke with it? That is, what do you want these mechanics to do for your game other than provide a result?

Honestly i was reading an article about how the system matters, and the various types of systems there are.  One thing I want to accomplish with this is to develop a system in which outcomes are not based on a static difficulty number.  I think it will develop more fluidity in game flow (no opposed rolls, Fate really decides the outcome) and social politicking (trying to convince your friend that he really wants to spend his last Karma so that you don't miss this attack).

Also, what's your name? It makes discussing things much easier. (I'm Raven, BTW.)

Larry, and it's a pleasure to meet you Raven.

[causticbuddhist]

Yes I kind of work strange when it comes to almost everything I do.
I started with the basic mechanics without a clear direction on what to do with those mechanics.

So, since I have outrageous amounts of free time on my hands currently, I sat down (really I laid in my bed) and came up with a some sort of direction, both in terms of a game design and what direction this project should take.

Project:
-kwôrk-

Key Ideas:

• Taken from the phonetic spelling of quark, the fundamental building block of all material.
• A game mechanics system to be used as a building block for module play settings (essences).
• Core Rules should be light - Character Creation, Game Mechanics, and generic bonuses and skills that will apply to a wide variety of settings.
• Get away from the standard dice mechanic of difficulty numbers or target numbers.
• Essences should be heavy with flavor and light with rules.

Well that's the meat of the subject.

Later today after a few hours of sleep, I'll start working more on the core mechanics and since mechanics alone do not create a game an included essence (probably in the cyberpunk or steampunk genre) and find some place to put the files online for preview.

Larry

[greyorm]

I was thinking the same thing, of course I've always been a fan of having a lot of dice to roll (probably from my love of Shadowrun).  Something about all those jumbling dice scattered all over the floor.

Heh, I know the feeling. I'm a fan of lots of dice, too -- though I'm in the "I love multi polyhedrals!" camp. I want to use every side of die there is, for tons of different things.

I'm seeing opposed rolls being handled by the addition of bonus dice (ie...Armor provides 1-5 Bonus dice to the attackers Negative Fate Pool) or possibly removing dice from the Positive Fate pool (which might be a better choice to reduce the number of dice rolled).

Ahhh, I see! That works out nicely. It also dovetails with another recent discussion here on the Forge regarding players rolling all the d20's in 4E, in terms of making sure the players are the active element at the table, rather than a reactive observer. And I agree with you I think this will help that occur.

I am assuming, though, that the game will be not be player-versus-player, though I suspect it is bound to come up at some point. How would player-vs-player challenges function?

Also, one thing to consider in determining which solution to utilize for the bonus dice (reducing positive or adding to negative), beyond keeping down the number of dice, is if choosing to reduce the number of positive dice rolled could ever result in a negative number of positive dice. If so, I think the easiest solution would sticking to adding the bonus dice to the negative dice. And I would get a math & statistics guru to break down the probabilities of each approach for you.

I think it will develop more fluidity in game flow (no opposed rolls, Fate really decides the outcome) and social politicking (trying to convince your friend that he really wants to spend his last Karma so that you don't miss this attack).

I like that, too; table-talk is always fun. Is there anything else in the system that supports swapping those dice out for your pals?

Larry, and it's a pleasure to meet you Raven.

You, too, Larry. Keep us informed on the game's progress!

[Krippler]

 I apologize for my typos and poor layout of all my posts on the forge btw, I can't view the text I'm typing and I can't select it either so everything has to be written blindly and in one shot!m If I made a system kalled Quark I'd emphathize the cool thinks about quarks like our model which names them stuff like Top, Down (almost already in your system ) Strangre and Charm. Also, quarks have different "colors" and you need three different colors to make a nucleon which I guess could be used in a christian themed RPG (holy ghost and all that).