Non-copyrighted games I can "borrow" texts from?

[bjorell]

Dear all,

I'm new around here, but have been working on a FRPG for quite some time now. I have the resolution system (d100) and the basic functions around classes, races, skills, magic etc.

What I'd like to find now (because im lazy and because English ain't my native language) is a FRPG game from which I can copy/paste things from, like "What is a RPG?", "What you need to play" and texts like that. Obviously, I'm not going to steal it from someone, but rather find a game that states that anyone is free to use its material however they like.

It would save me loads of time while avoiding unwanted spelling errors in copying the generic elements.

Q: Does anyone know of such a game or games? And do you think it's ok to do this?

With Kind Regards
Tomas /Sweden

[Eero Tuovinen]

Welcome to the Forge, I hope you'll find the place useful.

The term "non-copyrighted" is somewhat inexact here - not the least because copyright is only a verb in the USA, not elsewhere in the world. You'll want to look into "open licence" texts, such as those published under the Creative Commons or Open Gaming License, or even released completely into the public domain.

Ignoring that, there is the hurdle that this is not necessarily a very good idea. If I'm allowed to draw in broad strokes, state of the art rpg design has started to become so rich that "what is a RPG" texts are no longer the sort of copypasted drivel that they were in the Chaosium or Palladium era. I think that when you think hard about your game and especially compare it to other games on the market, you'll find that there is actually very little practical value you can garner from copying generic text from other games; there are simply so many differences between games. Only if you ended up copying from a game in the same exact tradition you're designing in yourself might you find some use in this - otherwise you might just end up giving wrong advice in your book by copying details from something that is not actually in harmony with your own design. This has happened many times in rpg design history, so it's something we certainly should be careful for.

Finally, some titles. I'm myself closely involved with The Shadow of Yesterday and its rules engine Solar System, both of which are available under the Creative Commons attribution license. What this means is that you're welcome to copy however much text you want from either of those games as long as you mention somewhere (in the credits, for example) where you got the text from. After that the first corpus that comes to mind is 3rd edition D&D and other OGL games, which might include material you could use. The Open Gaming License requires you to relicense the stuff you use, though, which means slightly more paperwork. Then there is FATE, another open quality system... what others? There are a bunch of small games that have open licenses, but those rarely have large advice sections.

However, what I would myself do in your stead would be a bit more ambitious: if I was going to just lift some texts about the basics of roleplaying, I'd take from copyrighted sources and quote them openly under fair use (or local equivalent). This wouldn't save any work for me, as I'd have to discourse on the topic myself as well to justify lifting a considerable bulk of text, but then this plan isn't going to save any work for anybody anyway - a typical "what is a rpg?" text is all of three paragraphs long, so it's pretty difficult to save work by lifting such a small text from somewhere else. There has to be some other reason that work-saving for doing something like this.

But that's just my suspicion, perhaps you know best yourself. Check out TSoY (a fantasy adventure game, so it might have something you can use) and some other games under open licenses (Google for OGL or CC roleplaying games, and you'll likely find a bunch to sort out) and see for yourself if there's anything useful in them. Meanwhile, think carefully about whether your game really is so generic as to justify copying text from others - if your design is so conventional that you can actually replace much of your writing with another's, then why bother writing it in the first place?

Also note that spelling errors are no reason to be afraid of writing: you'll want to do proper editing on a game you'll publish anyway, so your spelling errors matter little in the production sequence.

[Egonblaidd]

Ninja'd by Eero.  Oh well, I should learn to type faster or condense my thoughts into fewer words.

First, welcome to the Forge.  Good luck in your work on RPG design.

Technically I think any written work is copyrighted as soon as it is written, including these forum posts, apparently.  Now, some people might deliberately state that anyone can use their work, but there may or may not be conditions, such as mentioning the author in your credits.  What you can do is look at any RPG system (even copyrighted ones) and read what they say and then rephrase it (I think).  Things like rules and game mechanics can't be copyrighted, only the exact wording used to describe it.  I don't know if this would apply to a section like "What is an RPG?" or not, though.  My advice would be to read how other systems say it, then write your own version, checking the spelling and grammar to see if it is correct.  You could even post it here and we could make corrections to it.  Honestly your post has no spelling or grammar mistakes that I can see, so even if English isn't your first language you seem to speak, or write, at least, it very well, and you also use some slang type expressions (ain't, loads of time) that you wouldn't expect from a none native speaker.  You actually have better spelling and grammar than most native English speakers, (especially on the Internet).

One thing I'd do is make sure YOU understand what an RPG is.  Sure, you may play them and even design them, but can you explain what one is?  This is the sort of thing that can make a horrible product out of a good idea, if the creator doesn't understand what he's trying to create (which is why when you are struggling with some aspect of your RPG design, most people here will ask you, "What is your RPG about?"  Understanding what you are trying to create is one of the most important things you need to start making something great).  The fact is the there are quite a few things that would qualify as an RPG, everything from little kids' make believe games to first person shooter video games.  You need to not only be able to accurately define what an RPG is, but also how your game fits into that category.  I'd suggest checking out John Kim's site, he has a page specifically about the question "What is an RPG?"  His site isn't updated that frequently I don't think (that page was last updated in 2007, it says), but the info is still quite relevant.  I was able to get a lot out of his site.

Also, I'd strongly advise you to check out some other resources that can be found here.  On Troy's blog, Socratic Design, you can find a lot of info about the different aspects of RPGs and definitions for some of the terms commonly thrown around but never explained unless someone asks (terms like chargen, death spiral, color, sacred cows, heartbreaker RPGs, etc.), but I'd especially suggest you look at the Big Three and the Power 19 (part 2).  These are a series of questions that you'll want to ask yourself, some before you begin the design process and others as you go about the design, that will help you to insure that your game stays on track with your objective instead of merely being a collection of random rules thrown together.  There's also some other helpful links in the "Rules for the First Thoughts forum" thread at the top of the First Thoughts board.  You might find after looking through these resources that you want to completely redesign your system, or at least revise it (I'm still revising, and probably will be until I release a finished product).  Even if your goal is to just make a simple game in order to understand RPG design, then these should help you (is this mechanic too complex for my "simple game" objective?  How many attributes/skills should I have?  How should combat work in a simple game?).

I think the idea is that if your game has any "generic" elements then you don't understand your own game well enough.  Even if something isn't directly related to your objective, it should still be unique and reflect the uniqueness of your game.  Anyway, to answer your last question, you might be able to find some games like that here, but I wouldn't know.  If they say it's ok then it should be ok, but it would be courteous to at least give them credit.  I would still advise you to write your own material in order to add your own flavor to the text.

By the way, I'm using a d100 system as well.  It's not too complicated and is fairly easy to handle (just roll two dice, only uses d10s).  One aspect is that players can immediately see what their chances of success are.  It's a good and simple system, and easy to understand.

[Paul Czege]

Way at the bottom of this page, Greg Stolze has two texts, "How To Run Roleplaying Games" and "How To Play Roleplaying Games," which he has released under a Creative Commons Attribution-No Derivative Works 3.0 License (allowing you to use them, even in a commercial product, as long as you attribute the text to him, and you don't change a word).

Paul

[bjorell]

Hey guys!

Ok, so I think (after reading both posts twice and spending an hour to allow it to sink in) that I might just do the right thing here and raise the ambition level somewhat - because I feel you guys are right. I shouldn't just copy/paste text into my game for several reasons:

1. It's going to be my game and my contribution to the genre - the easy route might just take out some of the sense of achievement in the end.
2. Me being lazy has to end.. (well, I'll give it a good go at least)
3. All the games, blogs and other sources you've presented in your posts should be quite enough to get me going in terms of inspiration and "best practice" tips.

That said, I will most likely copy some texts while making sure I edit it until it fits my game. But my main focus should perhaps remain on getting it right by myself.

I also picked up the message that it's crucial that I know what a RPG is, and that strikes me as a really good advice. I have played many games over the years, spending countless hours in the hobby as a player, DM and writer. But when it's my turn to describe what a RPG is, it's not as simple as it would first appear. Sure, it's fairly easy to describe the physical stuff like dice, to-hit rules and such - but when it comes to the abstract elements of it - it gets trickier (but by no means impossible). And this is, I hope, where all those years in the hobby will "pay off".

Lastly, thanks for your words around my English - I really appreciate it! Doing this in a foreign language certainly adds to the complexity and reading those words strengthened me a lot going forward.

Great forum, great members and great atmosphere - I will stay for a while and see if I also can help others with what little advice I have.

Thanks a bunch!
Tomas, from a snowy Sweden

[bjorell]

Many thanks for that link Paul - I will check it out for sure. It would seem I have a lot of reading to do now =)

Cheers
Tomas