Speed and Accuracy, new system thought with example of play

[John Blaz]

Hey everyone, second time attempting to post this, so I'll be brief. The quicker you want something done, the less accurate it will be. Simple fact. I wanted to make that into a core mechanic, so let me know what you think!

STATS (rated from 1 to 6 for starting players)

Strength    - melee damage, carry weight
Reflex        - base initiative and movement speed
Notice       - perception
Personality  - charm 
Stamina    - health and endurance

SKILLS (rated from 0 to 5 for starting players)
[some skills have a separate Speed and Accuracy effect]

athletics         (Speed = distance covered, Accuracy = not falling, slipping or drowning)
camouflage     (Speed - how quickly the job is done, Accuracy = how well concealed target is)
combat         (Speed = initiative, Accuracy = land a strike)
first aid         (Speed = amount of wounds healed, Accuracy = if a wound can be closed)
guns             (Speed = initiative, Accuracy = hit a target)
marksman     (Speed = initiative, Accuracy = hit a target)
navigate     (Speed = cover more distance, Accuracy = don't get off track or lost)
persuade
repair         (Speed = time spent, Accuracy = how well the repair went)
stealth     (Speed = distance covered, Accuracy = how noticeable the character is)
tracking     (Speed = catch up to target, Accuracy = identify unique aspects of target, don't lose the trail)


RESOLUTION

divide total Skill dice (stat + skill +/- modifiers) into Speed and Accuracy
some weapons/ maneuvers have a Speed Factor, this shows the amount of Speed dice needed to receive a +1 bonus to Initiative
(example: an attack with Speed Factor 3 would get a +1 for spending 3 Speed dice. An attack with Speed Factor 1 would receive a +3 for spending 3 dice.)
total the character's Reflex score and their initiative bonus from spent Speed dice to get Initiative, highest initiative goes first
for different attacks (ie. firing a gun and kicking), use only the highest Speed Factor

roll remaining Accuracy dice
players may divide their Accuracy dice into as many attacks as they want (ie. 10 Accuracy dice could be used in many ways: one attack at Guns 10, two attacks at Guns 5/5, four attacks at Guns 1/2/3/4)
each 6 counts as a success


EXAMPLE:

Strelok is creeping carefully [Stealth Spd 4/ Acc 6 <1 success>] along a forest path. A pack of three blind dogs lie nearby, feasting on a fallen stalker [Notice 4 (-1 for distraction) <1 success>]. They notice Strelok and begin barking.

COMBAT ROUND 1
Strelok stands up and unholsters his Makarov pistol (Speed Factor 2). The dogs are far enough away where he doesn't worry about them closing the distance before he can unload a few shots at them. He fires 3 shots at one dog [Guns Spd 2/ Acc 3/3/2 <0/0/0 success>, Initiative 6] and gets zero hits. The dogs run at him.

COMBAT ROUND 2
He still has a chance to fire before they close the gap, so he moves back a little further (-1 total Guns dicepool for moving) and fires 2 carefully aimed shots at the lead dog [Guns Spd 0/ Acc 5/4 <0/1 success>, Initiative 5]. One of his bullets grazes the dog.

COMBAT ROUND 3
The creature has closed the gap with Strelok, so he switches his pistol for his knife (-1 dicepool for next action).
The dog (Reflex 5) makes an allout bite (Speed Factor 1) at Strelok [Combat Spd 2/ Acc 3 <0 success>, Initiative 7] as Strelok (Reflex 5) attempts a couple of quick stabs(Speed Factor 1) [Combat Spd 1/ Acc 3/3/2 <0/1/0 success>, Initiative 6]. The dog's action is completed first due to the higher combination of its Reflex score and the Speed dice spent.

COMBAT ROUND 4
Strelok attempts a powerful strike [Combat Spd 3/ Acc 7 <0 success>, Initiative 8] as the dog bites at him twice more [Combat Spd 1/ Acc 2/2 <0/1 success>, Initiative 6]. This turn, Strelok's action attack was made before the dog's.

COMBAT ROUND 5
Strelok attempts to kick (Speed Factor 2) the creature and make another powerful stab [Combat Spd 2/ Acc 2/6 <0/1 success>, Initiative 6] but the dog makes a quick strike [Combat Spd 4/ Acc 1 <0 success>, Initiative 9]. The dog's attack is first, but Strelok's attack fells the creature.

COMBAT ROUND 6
Now the other two dogs have closed the gap, and are only meters from Strelok. He pulls out his sawn off shotgun (Speed Factor 3) (-1 on next dicepool) , hoping to take them both out with one well aimed blast [Guns Spd 0/ Acc 9 <3 success>] as they charge towards him. The blast from Strelok's double-barrel (damage divided evenly between both targets) is enough to send both creatures sliding into the dirt, bloodied and still.

[Simon C]

First Thoughts posts are generally more successful if you have a specific question in mind.  What do you want help with?

[John Blaz]

I suppose I'm looking for general critique. Do the rules make sense? Does it sound like a good idea for a game focusing on tactics? Should multiple successes count towards damage or have other specific effects (like crippling or blinding your opponent)? Are there any variables or situations where these rules would just complicate things?

[Bill_White]

Where does force, power, or effectiveness fit in? In other words, why leave out damage (or level of effect more generally) from the trade-off? Or are accuracy and power being conflated in some of your examples? I'm reminded of the old canard "fast, cheap, good--pick two."

[John Blaz]

I want damage to get better with more successes. For example, 1 success with a pistol might do 3 damage while scoring 2 successes would do 7. This way for straight up damage dealing, you'd want more successes on one attack as opposed to scoring one success each across multiple attacks. I'd probably implement a system where increased damage could be traded in for things like targetting different hit locations or disarming the enemy.

[Callan S.]

Hi John,

How do you determine what adversity shows up/how many blind dogs there will be? A combat system isn't going to lead to tactical play if it's just one dog distracted by something - that'll be a cakewalk, no matter how complex the combat system is.

Also, I haven't looked hard at the math - but trade offs can be very samey. For example, a 10% chance to hit and 100 damage is the same as 100% chance to hit and 10 damage, basically. There's not much point to such a trade off. Does your system work like that?

[John Blaz]

Well Callan, the idea is that I don't want the mechanics to be "samey". Two separate quick hits should be less effective than one solid hit with a multiple-success roll. And the scenario with the dogs is just to show how combat works, there are no game devices to have enemies appear, that would be a plot device or random encounter that the GM places as he sees fit like in most RPGs.

[Garbados]

Intriguing. I definitely like the look of it all, especially how the combat example demonstrated system flexibility and variety. Of course, I don't understand the system well enough to make sense of a lot of the math you notated, but I'll take it on good faith that it works. Math aside, I think I understand the concept. That said, I worry how /fast/ the system will be. Players will need to not only assemble dice pools, which is a standard pitstop in most RPGs of this sort, but will additionally have to divide their dice pools between Speed and Accuracy. Is that a difficult tactical decision? Or, how much time do you imagine/expect players will spend addressing that question every time they take an action? In your combat example, were Strelok's divisions of Speed/Accuracy based on strategy or preference, and if the former, what strategic factors led to his decisions?

Additionally, I saw a whole lot of "0 Successes" going on. How mathematically likely are successes? I worry over whether players will become discouraged if their dice pools, however ostensibly large, turn up so much nothing.

I hope my criticism and questions help you out. I love the idea, more power to you, and good luck!

[John Blaz]

That said, I worry how /fast/ the system will be. Players will need to not only assemble dice pools, which is a standard pitstop in most RPGs of this sort, but will additionally have to divide their dice pools between Speed and Accuracy. Is that a difficult tactical decision? Or, how much time do you imagine/expect players will spend addressing that question every time they take an action? In your combat example, were Strelok's divisions of Speed/Accuracy based on strategy or preference, and if the former, what strategic factors led to his decisions?

I imagine it moving pretty quickly, since the dice spent on Speed aren't actually rolled, they are really just deducted from the normal Accuracy pool. And Speed just affects where in the initiative order you end up. For alot of people, that could present some tactical thinking, especially since I had planned to implement a system where if a character takes damage before their initiative, they have dice deducted from their pool for each success against them. However, if a character is hidden (using their Stealth skill), they might not care about initiative, since nobody can attack them anyway. In that case, they can concentrate completely on Accuracy and pull of some good shots.

Additionally, I saw a whole lot of "0 Successes" going on. How mathematically likely are successes? I worry over whether players will become discouraged if their dice pools, however ostensibly large, turn up so much nothing.

I was concerned about that too, after running my little one man example of play. I was using an online dice roller though, so who knows.
But to get at least on success on x amount of dice, the percentages are:

dice  percent
1      16%
2      30%
3      42%
4      51%
5      59%
6      66%
7      72%
8      76%
9      80%
10    83%

Now if I were to make successes be 5s and 6s, it would look like this: (remember this is the chance to score AT LEAST one success)

dice  percent
1      33%
2      55%
3      70%
4      80%
5      86%
6      91%
7      94%
8      96%
9      97%
10    98%

After running the numbers for both, I'm actually leaning towards using 5's and 6's.
Ideally, I would like to use d4s, and just have 4's count as success, but nobody really likes rolling d4s (myself included).

[John Blaz]

Oh, and the reason for using just 6's is that they are easy to recognize amongst a pile of dice that are being thrown. Which is why I'd like to use d4s, but eh...

[John Blaz]

Just ran another mock playtest with altered rules:

Playtest 2: human vs. human using 5's and 6's as success; each 6 subtracts 1 from the enemy's remaining Dicepool, as long as they have yet to act this round

Two soldiers (Wolf and Rat) have spotted each other and are standing in the open roughly 15m away from each other. They have identical stats and gear.
Wolf is taking his time lining up shots to do critical damage, while Rat is concentrating on putting as many holes in his enemy as he can.

COMBAT ROUND 1
Both players reveal their Speed dice for the round. Wolf - 2, Rat 4
Rat shoots 3 times [Guns 2/2/2 - 0/1/1 success] and gets two minor wounds on Wolf (and one 6)
Wolf shoots twice [Guns 4/3 -1/0 success] and gets one medium wound on Rat

COMBAT ROUND 2
Both players reveal their Speed dice for the round. Wolf - 0, Rat 4
Rat shoots twice [Guns 3/3 - 0/1 success] and scores another minor wound with a 6
Wolf shoots twice [Guns 5/4 -2/2 success] and hits Rat for two medium wounds (and one 6, but since Rat already acted this round, nothing happens)

COMBAT ROUND 3
Both players reveal their Speed dice for the round. Wolf - 0, Rat 0 (the effects of the combat happen simultaneously)
Rat shoots twice [Guns 5/5 - 2/1 success] a medium and a minor wound on Wolf
Wolf shoots once [Guns 10 - 3 success] a major wound to Rat

COMBAT ROUND 4
Both players reveal their Speed dice for the round. Wolf - 1, Rat 0
Wolf shoots once [Guns 9 - 0 success]
Rat shoots twice [Guns 5/5 - 2/0 success] and gets a medium wound on Wolf

COMBAT ROUND 5
Both players reveal their Speed dice for the round. Wolf - 1, Rat 0
Wolf shoots once [Guns 9 - 0 success]
Rat shoots 3 times [Guns 2/2/6 - 0/0/2 success] and gets a medium wound on Wolf

COMBAT ROUND 6
Both players reveal their Speed dice for the round. Wolf - 1, Rat 0
Wolf shoots once [Guns 9 - 4 success] and gets a serious wound on Rat (with two 6's)
Rat shoots 2 times [Guns 2/6 - /0/0 success]


Wolf's wounds
minor     x 4
medium  x 3
major     x
serious   x

Rat's wounds
minor     x
medium  x 3
major     x 1
serious   x 1

wounds
1 success = minor
2 success = medium
3 success = major
4 success = serious
5 success = critical

The lesson here is that by taking your time, you're likely to do more serious damage to the enemy, however, by firing a volley of shots at you they have the chance to hamper your abilities (by scoring 6's to deduct from your Dicepool)

[Garbados]

Interesting! I especially liked, in your first example, how characters moved by subtracting from their dice pools. Using the dice pool like action points very much piques my interest. But from a realistic standpoint, I feel like being grazed would have less of a hampering effect than suffering serious injury. Being this a game and not necessarily a simulation, we can sweep that under the carpet and I'll only grumble a little, though if it concerns you too, it might be worth thinking on.

What is your system's health system like? Rat inflicted more wounds, but Wolf's were harder. Is Rat dead? How is Wolf holding up? What about armor?

And, as before, this system looks like it holds shining promise. I'm excited to see more!

[John Blaz]

For the health system, I was thinking of using a wound track. If you look at the explanation after my second example, you'll see how one success on an attack is a minor wound. Essentially, a character can take 5 minor wounds, 4 medium, 3 major and 2 serious wounds. The amount of critical wounds depends on hit location (so one or two crits to the head would kill you, but you could survive 3 or 4 criticals to the torso. And I haven't thought too much on armor yet, but it will most likely just decrease any successful attacks by x successes. Oh, and I wasn't even using the damage rules in the test, it was just to illustrate how different combat strategies could work.

[John Blaz]

What is your system's health system like? Rat inflicted more wounds, but Wolf's were harder. Is Rat dead? How is Wolf holding up? What about armor?

I was on my phone earlier, here's a damage system I came up with. And I'm not 100% if I want 6's to hamper the enemy, I'll probably just let the actual wounding take care of that, but here goes:

Wounds are based on the amount of successes rolled on an attack. If a wound is taken and that wound track is filled, a dot is instead placed on the next highest wound track. (ie. if you have 5 minor wounds and take a sixth, the new minor wound instead becomes a medium wound). When the entire wound chart is filled, the character may still be alive, but just barely. Unless a result of critical bleeding, limb destroyed, or death is rolled, the character may still live.

1 success = minor
2 success = medium
3 success = major
4 success = serious
5 success = critical

minor     00000
medium  0000
major     000
serious   00
critical    0

For the most part, minor, medium, and major wounds have no game effects.
Serious wounds typically hamper the character in some way.
Critical wounds hamper the character even more, and can often be deadly.

When a serious or critical wound is taken, the attacker rolls a die to determine the body part hit.
Weapons that inflict a serious or critical wound roll a die type based on that individual weapon. The result is compared to a chart to see the effect of the wound.

example chart:

Serious Wounds
1-5        light bleeding
6-10      heavy bleeding, -1 related skills (arm = guns, leg = speed and athletics)
11-15     heavy bleeding, -2 related skills (arm = guns, leg = speed and athletics)
16-20    heavy bleeding, -3 related skills (arm = guns, leg = speed and athletics)
21+        limb destroyed, -3 to all dicepools, death within 30 minutes from blood loss   


Critical Wounds
1-5        heavy bleeding, -1 to all dicepools
6-10      heavy bleeding, -3 to all dicepools 
11-15     critical bleeding, - 3 to all dicepools and death within 10 minutes from blood loss
16-20    limb destroyed   
21+        death

This should eliminate the death spiral from the beginning of a combat (ie. no penalties for most wounds)

Note:
I might do a cross reference chart with results for the different hit locations (head, torso, arms, legs). This is just a test.