Magic Effects

[Gib]

I have been long contemplating the various definitions for various types of magic.  I see overlap in quite a few and want to stop splitting hairs and reduce redundancy.  Here's the standard D&D types(correct me if I got them wrong)

Abjuration
Conjuration
Summoning
Evocation
Necromantic
Illusion
Enchantment
Charm

Since this is a lengthy topic I'll start with Abjuration.  I don't see Abjuration as a real type and see it as a "hairsplitting" from Enchantment.  If Enchanting is defined as imbuing things with magical effects then that certainly covers Abjuration doesn't it?

Thanks,
Gib

[Gib]

Darn, no edit button.  Ok, my mistake, instead of Enchantment I realized now from a quick google I mean wither Alteration/Transformation:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magic_of_Dungeons_&_Dragons

I find that the deeper I look at the different types of magic that the more I find there are overlapping domains/types that a spell could be in.  For example, D&D puts the Fly spell in the Transmutation school(facet/type).  But when you read the other type definitions in that url above one can re-justify the Fly spell(d&d Abjuration) to be Abjuration because its a magical effect or supernatural ability you're bestowing on the targets.

Another quick example is teleportation effects..are in 2+ schools from what I see here:
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/lists/spells&tablesort=4

What do you guys think?  Is there a more concrete system out there for type of magic?  If you have a classification system, what is it?

Thanks,
Gib

[Simon C]

What are you trying to get from this thread?

Are you designing a game and you want to have characters with magic abilities that are divided into different schools?  If so, why start with D&D as your point of reference? Work out what makes sense for you, and what works with the themes and mechanics of your game.

[Gib]

The objective of  my post is research to determine what I want in my free-form magic system and I'm just using D&D "Schools" as my starting point as they make the most sense as a base type to me. After thinking some more, I realized that different types of magic will be able to achieve the same net effect as a spell in another and find that's a good thing.

Example: the Grease spell is in the School Conjuration in D&D.  But in a flexible free-form magic sytem like mine, the School of Transmutation  achieves the same effects (making the ground in an area slippery) by altering the friction in the area and doesn't have to actually summon grease to do the same effect.

Thanks,
Gib

[Daniel B]

As fiction, you really can justify anything to be classified as almost anything else. There is no "realistic" magic.. because magic doesn't exist! It really is better to decide your goals first, and make your magic meet those goals than to begin with the system.

For example, maybe I'm a Wizards of the Coast employee and building a magic system. My overriding goal for the system is to make it "fair", so a wizard who chooses to specialize in Transmutation/Alteration has access to the same number of spells with approximately the same level of power as a wizard who specializes in Abjuration.

In accordance with this goal, maybe there's a lot of powerful spells in Abjuration. I might then decide to put the "Fly" spell in Trans/Alt, to balance the relative power levels. Regardless of what makes "sense" to me, putting the Fly spell back in Abjuration would defeat my goals.

Dan

[7VII7]

Perhaps it would help to put the schools of magic you want instead of going over the schools you don't want, when thinking about what you seem to want the Manga Psyren comes to mind, in it there's three "schools" of psychic ability, Burst which creates physical constructs and energy, Trance which deals with mental stuff and what most people assume with psychic powers, and Rise which arguments the user's physical abbilities.

I'm not sure how much that example will help you but I suppose I'm trying to say is determine what you want first and the terminology second.

[Gib]

Ah, those 2 posts helped me solidify what I want, which is Free-form spells, Flavor of magic and caster, Balance, and knowing that some spells might be in the intersections of 2 or more types.  I also want these caster definitions and their types of spells they cast.  I need to now define the types and the spell effects I just listed below now.  This all kinda came out of my head as fast as I could type so it may not make as much sense right now without the spell effects possible in each type and the definitions of the types in better detail but its a good start I think.

Sorcerer: Approaches magic as a science so if a Sorcers can explain it in psuedo-scientific terms, they can do it.  The deal with the raw energy of magic such as Evocation(Energy "creation"/summoning) and  Conjuration(Matter creation/summoning), Mentalism(overlapping with Charm/Mind Control) and Illusions('It's merely refracted light coalesed into a focus")

Wizard: Uses Illusions, Charm/Mind Control, Enchantments(imbuing things with magical abilities)  enhance/dimish existing), Alterations/Transformation, Conjuration(Matter creation/summoning).

Mystic: Masters of the mind so their domains are, Mentalism(overlapping with Mind control) and Divination(Detect, knowlege/know, skry, tarot, divination, palmistry, reading "the bones", Skrying, Pre or Retro cognition, Clairvoyance, ect.)

Warlock/Necromancer(WOW warlocks): practice the Dark Arts of Black Magic(Necromancy, Hexes, Curses, destruction etc), Summoning, Mind Control(Fear)

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Druids - "The standard fare for a druid".  Not fully defined but I will call Nature Magic or Green Magic for now.

Priests - White magic, Healing, Enchantments(Buffs), prayers and miracles.