Scissors- Technqiues for Producing a Psychological Thriller RPG

[whiteknife]

OK, so I've been playing with a game idea lately- I call it Scissors. The pitch is that the characters have each found a pair of "scissors of fate", like those used by the three fates of Greek mythology- and they can use these to cut the "threads of life" that bind everything in a massive web of interrelationships. Most notably, this ability lets you kill pretty much anyone (well...anyone normal), but also just generally mess with fate, allowing you to cause extremely unlikely accidents in your favor, and a couple of other things... If you've read the (excellent) manga "Death Note" that's the feel I'm going for.

Anyways, I plan on the focus of the game being a mix of finding out all sorts of secrets hidden in the setting, working out the character's place in the world now that they have this great power, dealing with the consequences of their actions, and examining the role of fate in a more modern setting. Heavy stuff, but it's just broad ideas.

So as for the actual moment to moment goings on of the game I'm kind of having a bit of trouble. You see, I would prefer not to have the game focus on characters running around and solving missions or any of that "go somewhere fight some guys and complete a goal" stuff, nor do I want to generate a collaborative story- I'm trying for an atmosphere of psychological thriller/ horror. That means the action should ideally come from investigating things, working out ways to outwit foes with complex plots, finding out how to accomplish far reaching goals creatively...that sort of thing.

Now, what I'm asking is, what games (or just general concepts for games) would be useful in producing that kind of atmosphere? I'm looking for research material, basically. I'm familiar with (and very much love) Lacuna, which I intend to use at least a few techniques from (I'll definitely be including some form of "rising tensions" mechanic that stems from player action). But beyond that my roleplaying experience is largely with action-focused games- I've never played call of cthulhu, trail of cthulhu, dirty secrets, or any of that stuff- but maybe you have, and that's what I'd like to know.

In short, I'd like to hear some ideas for producing a thriller style game, whether they're your own or examples from other games.

[Vulpinoid]

Consider visualising the characters through actual pieces of thread.

As soon as the characters realise they have this ability, they also realise that their own thread is drawing to an end. Every time the characters use their ability, they physically cut their thread (the more powerful the effect they cause, the more thread they'll have to cut away), but there is a chance that their actions will give them extra thread to play with if they have proven successful or manage to twist fate to their advantage (this would then be tied in a knot to the end of the characters current destiny thread).

The physical presence of the thread gives the players a visceral feeling for how much longer they have in the world, and how much they will eed to cheat fate if they want to continue their journey.

Just an idea...

V

[whiteknife]

That's pretty cool. This idea does sort of call out for some sort of scissors related hi jinks, like cutting thread for abilities, cutting parts off a character sheet, or something,  but I'm wondering if that kind of thing is too gimmicky? It can be hard to tell, I think, and it probably depends on the person.

[Simon C]

yeah, you definitely are treading a fine line between gimmicky and cool.

I think for a mechanic involving actual scissors, you'd want to make sure that it wasn't something that could be done more easily and conveniently using more traditional means. 

A potentially interest route would be to couple this with relationship map mechanics, and cutting people out means literally cutting them off a piece of paper.  Similarly, you can sever relationships between people.  If you wanted to be fancy, you could do this with peg board and coloured thread, but that would stray into gimmicky territory.

You might want to check out "It's Complicated" as a game that uses mechanics that reference intersections on a relationship map, although I personally didn't enjoy the game.

[Warrior Monk]

As I recall from the Death Note manga, the demons were able to add to their lifetime the years they cut from their victims. I think you can state as a part of the premise that characters got this gift in exchange for most of their remaining lifetime, giving them like, 1d6 days left. So you have a constrain of time to scare people off and probably the promise of a terrible death and worse afterlife to put the pressure on them. Yet they can escape that destiny by cutting the thread of other people's life. So now you have the moral dilemma of whose life has less value, yours or your neighbour?

Of course, cutting threads must have additional complications, like players can't avoid getting entangled in the thread of the life they just cut, for good or bad. Only problem I see this far is about the amount of players, this doesn't look like a cooperative game yet, so either the number of players must be less than 4 or you get some mechanics to make it cooperative (though I don't consider this last one a must)

[whiteknife]

Hmm...I might have to look at it's complicated. I've heard of it, but I never checked it out- but relationship maps do sound like something useful.

The whole "you have only a few days to live" thing is great- I just love it, seriously, and I hadn't really thought of it before.

Making the game cooperative could become an issue, but I have some general ideas on how to make it work (like making the PCs so entwined with each other that they sort of have to work together or else... which could create some interesting intra-party stuff if the PCs goals come into conflict but they can't take direct action....

[Warrior Monk]

cool! hey, if you liked the 'only  a few days to live" idea, why not use this to get the party closer together? Like, "It's worse than you think, now YOU ALL are sharing the same life thread" so, once the time is up, everybody gets flushed down to hell. Add your ideas for PC's lifes being entwined prior to the event that gave them the powers and you'd get an instant solid teamwork there

[dmkdesigns]

OK, so I've been playing with a game idea lately- I call it Scissors. The pitch is that the characters have each found a pair of "scissors of fate", like those used by the three fates of Greek mythology- and they can use these to cut the "threads of life" that bind everything in a massive web of interrelationships. Most notably, this ability lets you kill pretty much anyone (well...anyone normal), but also just generally mess with fate, allowing you to cause extremely unlikely accidents in your favor, and a couple of other things... If you've read the (excellent) manga "Death Note" that's the feel I'm going for.

Anyways, I plan on the focus of the game being a mix of finding out all sorts of secrets hidden in the setting, working out the character's place in the world now that they have this great power, dealing with the consequences of their actions, and examining the role of fate in a more modern setting. Heavy stuff, but it's just broad ideas.

So as for the actual moment to moment goings on of the game I'm kind of having a bit of trouble. You see, I would prefer not to have the game focus on characters running around and solving missions or any of that "go somewhere fight some guys and complete a goal" stuff, nor do I want to generate a collaborative story- I'm trying for an atmosphere of psychological thriller/ horror. That means the action should ideally come from investigating things, working out ways to outwit foes with complex plots, finding out how to accomplish far reaching goals creatively...that sort of thing.

Now, what I'm asking is, what games (or just general concepts for games) would be useful in producing that kind of atmosphere? I'm looking for research material, basically. I'm familiar with (and very much love) Lacuna, which I intend to use at least a few techniques from (I'll definitely be including some form of "rising tensions" mechanic that stems from player action). But beyond that my roleplaying experience is largely with action-focused games- I've never played call of cthulhu, trail of cthulhu, dirty secrets, or any of that stuff- but maybe you have, and that's what I'd like to know.

In short, I'd like to hear some ideas for producing a thriller style game, whether they're your own or examples from other games.

This sounds like a fun and intriguing game concept.


I have some questions.


What happens when the life of another is cut?

Does the cutter get more time to live, such as rolling a d6, thus prolonging their existence at the expense of others? Do the cutters get info, flashbacks narrated by the GM or Players about the person who has their life shortened, or does this only happen if threads are crossed?

What happens if they cut their own life -- down to Hades realm?

What if they cut the threads of other cutters -- do they get rewarded differently or get all of the info and power accumulated by that cutter?

Are the cutters in this game considered murderers or tragic figures caught in a web of deception and survival?

Must they cut threads of people or can animals suffice?

What about attempting to cut the threads of supernatural beings?

Can the scissors be broken or utilized in other forms such as making knots or ties?

Is there a relationship between the cutters, such as they have all interacted with each other previously or are cursed to take on the mantle of fate?

Are the cutters destined only to eventually die or do they need to pass on the scissors to others potential cutters or to the Fates of the current world or go into hell and do battle or further investigations?

Do the cutters spend part of the game weaving their threads and cutting their threads to figure out the pattern of the mystery to solve or not?


-David-

[whiteknife]

OK, I haven't finalized anything at this point (still working through the setting) but here're my tentative answers. Thanks for asking the questions, by the way, it really helped me clarify a lot of things. For example, I didn't realize how much this game sounds like Vampire (which is ironic considering I've never even played vampire). Anyways, here you go:

What happens when the life of another is cut?
That would kill them. However, it also sort of puts some elements of their life into yours as well.

Does the cutter get more time to live, such as rolling a d6, thus prolonging their existence at the expense of others? Do the cutters get info, flashbacks narrated by the GM or Players about the person who has their life shortened, or does this only happen if threads are crossed?
OK, getting more time to live can happen by cutting someone. "Crossing/weaving" threads can also have this effect (although it's significantly harder), and flashbacks, info, and other stuff can pop up in either situation. I kind of want it to be that you don't have to kill someone with the scissors...but it's a hell of a lot easier. After all, scissors are meant for cutting things.

What happens if they cut their own life -- down to Hades realm?
Well, this would ideally be a mystery to the characters, and likely the players as well- it'll be strongly hinted that it could bring you to some sort of nether realm- but then again you could just die...

What if they cut the threads of other cutters -- do they get rewarded differently or get all of the info and power accumulated by that cutter?
OK, in this case, yeah they would be "rewarded more" since other cutters would be very difficult to take down. However, doing this to those in your own group would be tantamount to suicide- the threads are so tangled you'd assuredly kill yourself as well. The last thing I need is to incentivize the players immediately killing each other for power.

Are the cutters in this game considered murderers or tragic figures caught in a web of deception and survival?
That question is kind of open to interpretation, although the text would lean towards tragic figures in a web of deception. Certainly some of the elements I would like to explore would be how far can you go before it stops being OK, and all that. Also, I imagine many of the characters foes would likely consider them murderers.

Must they cut threads of people or can animals suffice?
No animals here- people only. However, like I said above killing wouldn't be the only option, it's just the easiest.

What about attempting to cut the threads of supernatural beings?
That would be possible, but probably not very easy- for most people the scissors give you basically total control over whether to easily kill them, try to control them, or whatever, but for supernatural beings it would be almost the opposite- they'd have an easy time killing you and you'd have to work out whatever their weakness is to have a chance at them.

Can the scissors be broken or utilized in other forms such as making knots or ties?
Yep. Although the scissors don't physically do anything but cut, those who have them can weave, knot, tie, etc. The three fates, which is sort of a motif I'm going for, had three members: one who would sew the thread, one who would measure it, and one who would cut it. I would like the players to be able to do all those things, but of course the cutting is the most powerful.

Is there a relationship between the cutters, such as they have all interacted with each other previously or are cursed to take on the mantle of fate?
Yeah, ideally as part of the "you're woven together by fate" thing they'd have some sort of connections with each other. Maybe they've met, maybe they share very similar views, or whatever.

Are the cutters destined only to eventually die or do they need to pass on the scissors to others potential cutters or to the Fates of the current world or go into hell and do battle or further investigations?
The eventual destiny of the cutters I think could go in a lot of ways, depending on how the game turns out, although I can see all those things as likely outcomes.

Do the cutters spend part of the game weaving their threads and cutting their threads to figure out the pattern of the mystery to solve or not?
Yep. That would probably where the moment to moment action of the game takes place.

Sorry if I was a bit vague in parts, I don't have it all worked out yet- plus it's a mystery game so I want to leave some of it open to interpretation.

If there's anyone else with comments, suggestions, questions, or whatever I'd love to hear them.

[otspiii]

What would be the requirements for cutting/messing with someone/thing's thread?

In Death Note you need to know someone's name and face to kill them.  Would there be some similar things you'd need to know about someone in this, or would you basically just see strings dangling behind everyone that you can cut at your leisure?  I like the idea of some personal bit of information (a name, a desire, a birth-date) needed to cut someone that wouldn't be too hard to find for people off their guard, but that could make it really hard to cut anyone who knows how the game is played.  What about for 'chance'?  If you want to make sure the subway shows up late by messing with its thread what do you need to do to be able to do that?

Are the threads of fate just floating around you at all times, or do you have to go into a dream projection state to travel to 'thread-space'?  If it's something you can do at will while conscious it turns the game into a weird kind of mix between White Wolf's Vampire and Mage lines, not that this couldn't be really fun.

What special protections would supernatural things have?  What would keep you from casually cutting them, but still let you potentially figure out how to get around their defenses?  Would it be information gathering, or tricking them into leaving an open spot, or what?

[whiteknife]

What would be the requirements for cutting/messing with someone/thing's thread?
In Death Note you need to know someone's name and face to kill them.  Would there be some similar things you'd need to know about someone in this, or would you basically just see strings dangling behind everyone that you can cut at your leisure?  I like the idea of some personal bit of information (a name, a desire, a birth-date) needed to cut someone that wouldn't be too hard to find for people off their guard, but that could make it really hard to cut anyone who knows how the game is played.  What about for 'chance'?  If you want to make sure the subway shows up late by messing with its thread what do you need to do to be able to do that?

Yeah, you'd need some bit of information about them. I'm not sure if it would be standardized (face, name, birthday, something else) but if it wasn't I'd have guidelines or something. I think that adds a couple cool things: it requires some role-playing and simultaneously makes important NPCs harder to take down by virtue of they'd be more on guard. For 'chance' events, it would be different I think. Since you can't ask an event a question, it'd probably just happen, but with a consequence based on the severity of the change, maybe with like a roll in there somewhere to determine if you could lessen the consequences. So making a train late would maybe have small, possibly even unnoticeable consequences, but something bigger like making a roof collapse could have really bad impacts.

Are the threads of fate just floating around you at all times, or do you have to go into a dream projection state to travel to 'thread-space'?  If it's something you can do at will while conscious it turns the game into a weird kind of mix between White Wolf's Vampire and Mage lines, not that this couldn't be really fun.

Well, part of the setting I was thinking would be that having the scissors sort of comes with the ability to see the threads (which I'll eventually come up with a good name for- the weave or the web or the tangle maybe). Although I'm thinking that some characters might be able to "focus in" on things to get a clearer picture, but for the most part you'd be able to see this stuff everywhere.

What special protections would supernatural things have?  What would keep you from casually cutting them, but still let you potentially figure out how to get around their defenses?  Would it be information gathering, or tricking them into leaving an open spot, or what?

Supernatural things would have a few things going for them I'd think. For one, they'd be hard to trick info out of, and would have difficult to locate threads, possibly needing some sort of special thing to locate- some might be connected to a certain nearby person, some might need to be tricked into the light, or some might just not have threads at all, or at least none visible to you without some sort of special item or something. The idea would be that they'd all have their own way to be taken down, and nothing that easy.

I liked that set of questions. This is really getting my ideas flowing...