Daikaiju (long)

[xiombarg]

Okay, I have an idea for a game called "Daikaiju", a game about Godzilla-style monster-to-monster fighting. I'm brainstorming here, so suggestions/additional ideas/critiques are welcome.

See, I was looking at Monster Island from Firefly Games, which uses petty standard, vanilla, Simulationist RPG combat mechanics. Initiative, roll to hit, roll for damage, the whole nine yards. And I was thinking about the "whiff factor", and I thought:

"Wait a minute... do giant monsters (kaiju) in Godzilla flicks ever miss?"

And, looking back at, say, "Godzilla vs. Megalon", the answer is: NO. When a kaiju attacks something, he hits it. Because, frankly, missing is boring. The only question is how well the target shrugs it off.

And movement? Please. Once the kaiju get to the battlefield, they can instantly reach any other kaiju they want. Even flying kaiju like King Ghidorah hover close enough to the ground to be attacked, at least by other kaiju.

The same goes for initiative. Not everyone gets a "turn" -- there are often whole sequences when, say, Megalon does several distinctly different attacks in a row (dive bomb attack, punches, burrowing under an opponent and then popping up, and then firing an exploding stone from his mouth).

So, okay, I was thinking my "Daikaiju" game would work like this:

Define a monster. This would be a pretty simple process, where you'd outline a simple list of Traits, the sort of things a 12-year-old fan of the monster in question would say he "can do", like if you asked 'em "What sort of things does Godzilla do?". For example, Godzilla really has only one Trait from this perspective: He "Can Breathe Atomic Fire". Everything else Godzilla can do (bite, punch, etc.) any kaiju can do. King Ghidorah has more traits: He "Can Fly", "Can Fire Lightning" and "Has Three Heads". (And that last one is pretty iffy, actually -- the three head thing is more about looking cool than being able to do anything.)

You'd get a certain number of tokens, say, 10, minus the number of Traits you have, since Traits give you more combat options.

Anyway, initiative would be like this: Each monster would pick a suit in a normal deck of cards. (Most monster-to-monster fights I've seen have no more than four participants, and rarely have more than two.) Take out the suits you ain't using, and shuffle.

The GM then draws the cards one by one. When your suit comes up, you get to attack. Describe it any way you want. The more colorful, the better. If it's REALLY colorful, like it doesn't even seem to be something your monster can normally do, but is cool anyway (like Godzilla pushing himself into a wire-fu flying double-kick with his tail), you have to spend a token. You can use your attack to try and hurt 'em or to try to put your target in a situation that they have to get out of. But regardless of what you do, it ALWAYS works. No questions.

Your target is down until his card comes up again. Then he shrugs it off somehow and attacks, or escapes the situation he's been put in by another kaiju (thrown in a pit, placed in a rock, surrounded by flame, whatever). (Since "trapping" an opponent denies them an attack, even if they get to describe a cool escape, I'm thinking that should always cost a token.)

The combat ends when all the cards in the deck have been gone through. At that point, you determine a winner, and the winner gets to describe the results of the attack that finally "takes out" his opponent (or one opponent, in a grand melee).

How do you determine a winner? That's where I'm stuck. I'm thinking some sort of system where people are rated for the coolness of their descriptions, and then whoever had the most "cool points" at the end is the winner. I'm going for a sort of Narrativist/Gamist mix here. But I'd love suggestions for a better system than that. I'd even be willing to deal with some sort of hit point system, it's just no one is permanently down until the deck has been gone through.

Or, perhaps there could be a sort of metagame wrapped around the battles. In a Godzilla film, you know Godzilla is going to win eventually. So the players play a sort of metagame where they script the film, and whenever a kaiju battle happens, it's declared beforehand who's gonna win at that point in the movie. ;-) Sort of "railroading on purpose", done with full consent of everybody. The fun part is putting on a good show while you're at it.

The main parts of it that struck me were the non-standard initiative and the complete and utter lack of whiff factor. Tho I suppose to make it really without "whiffing" there needs to be a sytem to make sure EVERY attack is effective somehow. Perhaps there should be some sort of damage roll and winner is determined both by damage inficted and by style together. ;-)

What do y'all think?

[damion]

What you have sounds more Narrativist than Gamist/Simulationist, at least to me. It seems like your going for more 'how the fight goes' than how it turns out.  How about the winner is whoever get's the last action (They get to describe how it turns out.)

Maybe have a couple actions where you get to look at the bottem card and say reshuffle, or remove it. (The key being that your removing an opponent win, but not necessaraly giving your self one(they could have two cards in a row).
Maybe you can spend a token to look at the bottem card, and you can spend a token to reshuffle the deck or remove the bottem card(without looking at it).

Interesting idea overall

[xiombarg]

What you have sounds more Narrativist than Gamist/Simulationist, at least to me.

Yes, that's the idea. Narrativist with a touch of Gamist. Sorry if that wasn't clear or if I mis-spoke. I am prone to brain farts.

It seems like your going for more 'how the fight goes' than how it turns out.  How about the winner is whoever get's the last action (They get to describe how it turns out.)

I considered that but I wanted a little more player control of the outcome.

Maybe have a couple actions where you get to look at the bottem card and say reshuffle, or remove it. (The key being that your removing an opponent win, but not necessaraly giving your self one(they could have two cards in a row).

That's an interesting idea. And if you don't shuffle, your opponents know it's YOU on the bottom, or one of your allies. (I need some coherent ideas for rules for team play.)

Maybe you can spend a token to look at the bottem card, and you can spend a token to reshuffle the deck or remove the bottem card(without looking at it).

Hmmm, I'll have to mull that over. Any other ideas form the peanut gallery? ;-)

[ADGBoss]

It seems alot like Professional wrestling (not in a bad way) or like the "Saturday Morning Kung-Fu Monster Action Hour." Do you have any rules for Foreign Objects? ie Buildings, bridges, tanks.

How about having the Joker (or Jokers) in the Deck.  These represent the Military and or Scientists of the Bystanders interfering in the Battle. Perhaps if you draw the Joker you automatically get knocked down and lose your turn.

Team play could be good either in Tag team mode (spend a token or action to bring the other guy in) or True double team mode. Perhaps 2 cards are drawn at a Time and this represents either one team getting the upper hand or one member of both teams reacting at the same time.

Hope this helps

SMH
ADGBoss

[Ben Morgan]

Man in Suit!! Man in Suit!! Man in Suit!! Man in Suit!! Man in Suit!! Man in Suit!! Man in Suit!! Man in Suit!! Man in Suit!! Man in Suit!! Man in Suit!!

Seriously, this sounds really cool.

As far as determining a winner, I have part of an idea, it's not all there yet, but here's what I've got so far: Keep track of groups of cards that come up the same suit in a row.

In other words, GM deals, your suit comes up, you make an attack, it's cool, yada yada. GM deals another card, still your suit, make your attack, it's cool, yada yada. GM deals yet another card, still your suit, make your attack, yada yada. Each time this happens, take those cards and keep them together in a group on the side.

At the end, whoever has a group with the most cards in it is the winner. If it's a tie, total up the values of all the cards on each side.

So if Godzilla's greatest streak is 5 cards, and Mothra only had a 3 card streak, guess who wins. If Gidorah has a 5-card group, and so does Mecha-Godzilla, count up the values in both groups (for example: 5, 4, 7, 8, 2 = 26 vs. 10, 2, 7, 8, 4 = 31).

You could actually have a total knockdown-dragout fight that lasts forever, and no one ever gets more than 1 card in a row. At the end, the values of the final card are compared. In the ultra-unlikely event of a tie on that last card, make something up, I don't know.

Just an idea.

[Mike Holmes]

As far as determining a winner, I have part of an idea, it's not all there yet, but here's what I've got so far: Keep track of groups of cards that come up the same suit in a row.

Kaiju-Rummy!

The player can, at any point, keep any series of cards played, even one card, if he so likes, decided when the series is broken. He can do this only once, however, and if a better series comes up later, he cannot take that one. If he has not taken a series by the end, he gets the last card. When the Kaiju takes his card, he does his victory squeal, then the fight continues.

At the end of the deck, compare. The highest number of cards in the series wins, ties broken by the highest card in the series. So, you might just choose to keep that solitary Queen if you are nearing the end, and your opponent does not have a longer series yet. Or you might pass on that five card high series of three, hoping for a better series later.

Advanced rules.

Straight. Beats a high card hand. So, if you get two of your cards in a series that are numerically adjacent, this beats any series of any length that does not have this characteristic (assuming you decide to keep it). This represents a killer combo.

Of a kind. If you draw a card of your own suit, and then follow it up with a card of a different suit, but with the same rank, then that card becomes part of your series, and the series continues, but only in that suit. Yes, this includes an opponent's suit. If this is a neutral suit, this represents using the terrain against your opponent. If you use your opponent's suit, this represents turning his strengths aganst him (using his weight against him, reflecting a ray attack, etc.). This sort of series beats a High Card hand, but not a Straight.

The Jack. The Jack of your suit is special in that if it is retained in a series, it can later be traded our for any other card of your suit that comes up. This represents a tricky maneuver when played.

The Queen. When your Queen comes up, you may optionally draw five cards, and keep any you like, and discard the rest including the Queen. This represents the kaiju's secondary power move, or a flurry of attacks. If there are fewer cards than five left in the deck, then the player can only draw as many as remain.

The King. When the King comes up, the monster has been Supercharged (we all know this moment, he's either really mad, or glowing, or has taken a deep breath, whatever). The player can optionally discard the King, to unleash it's primary attack sending the other monster sprawling, and forcing it to discard it's series.

The Ace. Aces are high or low for purposes of straights, but otherwise count as a one. The card drawn after an ace automatically belongs to the series with the ace (even if an opponents). This represents a number of things, generally the monsters overall resourcfulness.

Jokers. Jokers are the suit of the previous card, and are added to the series. They do not, however, extend straights.

If both players have chosen their series, the player with the lower hand can then add to his series any series of cards that comes up, as long as it makes his series better than the opponent's. So you might want to take a low series early if your opponent has already taken a higher one, so that you can add to yours and beat it. If the players have tied hands, they can both continue to add to their hands. Once on player does this, making their hand higher, then only the other player can add.

Development. After a Kaiju wins a fight, it can draw a card at random from the deck. If it is a card of his suit, then he can add that card to any deck in the future such that there are now tow (or more) of that card in the deck. If he draws a joker, he can add that to future decks at his option as well, though the card benefits whoever draws it.

Just some ideas.

Mike

[xiombarg]

I like these ideas. They'd have to be combined with some sort of rating of the moves themselves, however. I'd like like the cool descriptions to count for  something...

[Mike Holmes]

I like these ideas. They'd have to be combined with some sort of rating of the moves themselves, however. I'd like like the cool descriptions to count for  something...

Each of the Kaiju's two traits has a card rank associated with it, defined by a random draw from the deck. Whenever this monster's suit comes up with the card from that rank, youget to use your special trait ability. I'd make up a ton of these, and let people select from a list.

Energy Breath - when the associated card comes up, the next card drawn is automatically considered to be his suit for the remainder of the game.

Flight - when the associated card comes up it may be discarded to force the opponent to discard one of the cards from their series, or, if he has none, he cannot select the next series that comes up for his hand.

Three Heads - when the associated card comes up, the player can draw three cards, and keep which ever of the cards he likes as the next played.

Tunneling - when the associated card comes up, the player can add it to his seies if he already has one, or hold it and add it to his series when he picks it.

Etc.

Or, instead of associating with a card, you can just allow powers like these to be used once per game, making it more of a strategy thing. Or perhaps both, with a lesser power for use without the card present, and greater powers for use when the card comes up (like flares from Cosmic Encounters).

Mike