Inspiration

[Balbinus]

Hi again,

I'd like some feedback on the following concept for a game mechanic, which would be used in a Renaissance setting.

Inspiration.

This would probably be a stat of some kind and would reflect the degree to which one was moved by inspiration, by something greater than oneself. It is that feeling one has when one feels swept up in the passion of a moment or an idea and the idea is so right that it feels like it is simply flowing through you rather than coming from you.

For an artist, it would permit the making of great art, for a priest the making of a sermon which could actually bolster faith, for a soldier the sudden leap of insight which enables him to outthink his enemy.

An artist with high art skill but no inspiration would produce technically brilliant works, but without true genius. A skilled priest without inspiration could debate theology with the masters but would never shake a human soul into seeking God, a skilled soldier without inspiration would be competent and efficient but would never be a Napoleon or Alexander.

It's actually quite an old concept, in human terms. But not reflected in games. It's very Renaissance though. The idea is to integrate the concept of genius and to make it playable.

A bonus to skill or Hero Wars-esque augmentation is the easiest way to implement it, but I see an inspired work as qualitatively different to an uninspired one, not just quantitatively.  Also important is the idea of inspiration as something from without, something which lifts up the character and briefly transforms them so that they produce work greater than the merely human.  Inspiration is the quality that sets Michelangelo apart, genius made flesh.

So, how to reflect it.  Thoughts?

[Mike Holmes]

In terms of the classic mode that you mention, I belive that Adventure! uses a mechanic called, well, Inspiration Points. IIRC. From what I've heard, these are just points that you can add to boost your ability.

What I'd suggest is that you combine this "traditional" mode with the HW HP cementing sort of mechanic. That is, you can use the points to add to something, but when you do, the thing created (even an action), will become a permenant bonus. Not only was the work inspired, but it in turn becomes inspiring. In that way, if I create a painting of something, and use Inspiration points to succeed, that painting will become able to add to all rolls in the future that can relate to the thing.

For example, My charcter Arturo has three Inspirado points. He decides to spend them on a duel with the Duke of Milan's son. In the battle (with a plus three on the roll), the character wins, but does so in such a manner that from  then on anyone remembering Arturo's duel will gain a +3 to his action, assuming that it's appropriate (perhaps only in future honorable duels).

In this way characters can have an enduring effect on things, and the effects of their inspiration will be very special indeed.

Only one problem.

What do you give them out for? The purist in me wants to make them finite inthe world. One travels to see a Michelangelo, and takes the three Inspiration from it (leaving it empty), and can then be inspired to do great things themselves. But that's a bit probematic as it means that the effects of Inspiration are fleeting. Perhaps they can only be passed on once leaving the normal bonus intact? Perhaps it takes some sort of smarts roll to get the Inspiration out of he item? Just some ideas.

Mike

[Jasper]

I really like Mike's idea of making a long pilgrimage just to gather some more Inspiration.

Maybe you could do something like TROS's Spritual Attributes, with some sort of "Inspirations": things that lead a character to inspiration.  One guy would be inspired by great beauty in nature, and would travel to China to view the mountains there, while a priest would be inspired by witnessing human endurance, so when he goes to a plague-ridden town and sees a poor woman going without food so her child can eat, he gets inspired.

I'm not sure exactly how you'd set the "level" of what actrually gives inspiration and hence prevent abuse.  In the latter example it would be pretty immoral for the priest to actually seek out that kind of experience, so maybe you could have positive and negative inspiration.  Positive ones can be sought out.  Negative ones are invalidated if actively sought out, but are more powerful.

Just some thoughts.

[Mike Holmes]

Oohh, that's pretty good. Call em Muses. Each player get's, oh, I dunno, three? Not too many. But if one has the Muse of art, then one gets inspired by great works of art, if one has the Muse of Diplomacy, one gets inspired by great speeches, etc. Yes, I suppose there should be a Muse of Combat as well.

That's pretty cool. I can't think of any better way to get people involved with the settings color than to have them have a Muse of Architecture. They'd be inspired by the colloseum, and St. Peters, etc.

This is starting to sound like an entirely different game, however. What does all this inspiration have to do with who you know?

Mike

[Jeremy Cole]

This is similar to the idea I've been toying with.  A character is defined by a few inspirations (desires, ethics etc) and is then rewarded in the game by meeting these inspirations, leading to stat-boosting.  But you seem to be talking about one-shot, sudden, change the fate of the world inspiration, which is slightly different and probably more interesting.

Maybe the whole objective of the game is to gain inspiration, at which time you make a significant impact on the Renaissance, and in turn the world.  A campaign where a knowledgeable, wise preacher could finally see the truth of the human condition, and make that one great statement or expression.  Perhaps the game could go into the after effects of such an act, or the game is the after-effects of the act, or maybe the whole campaign is him reaching inspiration.

Perhaps a character is given several inspirations, and not all of them are as noble as 'easing suffering', and a character must conclude the campaign by deciding which one has truly defined his life.  Is this now a whole new idea or is this what you were getting at?  I suppose it depends on whether you thought inspiration was the whole game, or just one mechanic?

Jeremy

[JSDiamond]

I realize this is just brainstorming the crunchy bits, but...

The artists of that period were often commissioned to paint spiritually inspirational pieces for churches and so on.  So a particularly inspired painting could move people to commit to the church either as priests in training, monks, soldiers, or simply as parish.  Art was definitely instrumental in attracting more followers, which means more tithing$ etc.

Heresy was also a 'problem' of that period, a priest or artist could also use their inspiration to commit heresy.  Make people abandon belief, lose morale, etc.  I see a whole host of intrigues that could go on here in between rival churches fighting over a city's populace.  Using artwork to fight their battles!  

Coolness.

[kevin671]

SWRPG (d20) has an interesting way of dealing with accumulation of inspiration (called force points).  In order to gain a force point, one must either gain a level, or complete an act of "dramatic heroism."  Such a mechanic could easily be applied to a soldier.  It could also be expanded to include acts of "dramatic inspiration" for the artist or the priest.  Of course, this means that you must have some sort of mechanic in place for the act that is doing the inspiration, beyond a simple skill roll.  My idea is to have a static pool of points, (ie: the character has a total, which never decreases)and the points add bonuses to a roll.  When one is spent on the act (whether art, combat or preaching etc.) and a high enough skill roll is made a work of true inspiration is created, and thusly a character gains an inspiration point added to his total.  And then you have a mechanic for a character to replenish inspiration.  another option is to have a pool of points(which can be lost if spent on wasted actions), and when a character spends one on an act of true inspiration he regains that point plus gains an additional point.  This second mechanic could potentially eliminate abuses of the situation due to the fact that no one will want to waste an inspiration point on actions which are not likely to garner them more.  You could even have "inspiration checks" as a stand alone game mechanic.  Whenever a character experiences something horrifying or terrifying he can make an "inspiration check" to overcome the fear/pain/whatever.

Anyway, that's just my two cents.  If I'm a moron, please let me know.

[simon_hibbs]

A bonus to skill or Hero Wars-esque augmentation is the easiest way to implement it, but I see an inspired work as qualitatively different to an uninspired one, not just quantitatively.  Also important is the idea of inspiration as something from without, something which lifts up the character and briefly transforms them so that they produce work greater than the merely human.  Inspiration is the quality that sets Michelangelo apart, genius made flesh.

Firstly, what is it baout the HW game that makes the levels of success quantiative and not qualitative indicators? Surely a better success while creating a work of art produces qualitatively better artwork, not merely more art?

Since you bring up HW, I suppose you could assign an ability rating to the resultant work of art - it's Inspiration rating - perhaps based on the consequences chart - Marginal Success (1-10), Minor Success (11-20), etc. This could be used to inspire others - using it's ability rating to augment their own efforts.

Hero wars is all about ordinary people doing extraordinary things, and transcending mundane mortal limitations.


Simon Hibbs

[Balbinus]

Simon,

You missed out the following part of my post, which explains the difference I'm drawing between qualitative and quantitative:

"An artist with high art skill but no inspiration would produce technically brilliant works, but without true genius. A skilled priest without inspiration could debate theology with the masters but would never shake a human soul into seeking God, a skilled soldier without inspiration would be competent and efficient but would never be a Napoleon or Alexander."

The whole point is that an inspired artist produces not just something better than the uninspired artist but something fundamentally different, something new.  It's the difference between technical expertise and actual genius.  Hero Wars is quantitative as the augmented person effectively just has a higher roll.  They produce the same kind of thing but better.  The inspired person produces something the uninspired couldn't, regardless of roll.

Hero Wars is a bit too mythic.  Everyone is capable of doing extraordinary things.  That's not what I'm looking for.  I'm working towards a specifically Renaissance notion of genius, af the muse (or God if you prefer) providing inspiration.  Hero Wars has a different feel.

[simon_hibbs]

Hero Wars is quantitative as the augmented person effectively just has a higher roll.  They produce the same kind of thing but better.  The inspired person produces something the uninspired couldn't, regardless of roll.

Hero Wars is a bit too mythic.  Everyone is capable of doing extraordinary things.  That's not what I'm looking for.  I'm working towards a specifically Renaissance notion of genius, af the muse (or God if you prefer) providing inspiration.  Hero Wars has a different feel.

Ok, I see we're a little at cross-purposes. I read the quoted paragraph, but I took it as read that the player characters are the kind of people that get Inspiration. In Hero Wars only player characters, and optionaly some select NPCs of particular note, get Hero Points. Therefore they seem to me to be a suitable vehicle.

I take your point about a bumped success being just like any other skill roll, but better. In fact they can give you a better success than it's possible to roll 'naturaly' - you simply roll a critical success and then bump it up. Nevertheless that is a mere game mechanic and you seem to be striving for something beyond mere game systems - I'm not realy sure how you are going to get it in a roleplaying game.

I'd like to back up the suggestion that a great work could be 'cemented', using additional Hero Points, or some similar mechanic. i.e. First roll to produce your work of art, then cement it to give it a persistent ability rating based on the success of the roll. Maybe not what you're after, but the best I can suggest at the moment.


Simon Hibbs

[Bjorn Ludvigsen]

Assuming it's a stat like you initially asked, in a renaissance setting, wouldn't everybody want to have this stat high?  It is, after all, the "genius" stat.  If you have it low, you're not a genius, and your hopes of success are lower.  Sounds like that could ruin the fun of the player who gets a low Inspiration stat before he even begins to play.

Personally, I like the point pool idea.  You could have rolls based off of the pool, or possibly have points in the pool being able to be used for skill roll bonuses.  Get inspired by the inspired works of others, then spend those inspirational points on performing inspired actions.  Go see a painting or some snazzy architecture, and then, aided by your newly found inspiration, proceed to defeat that snotty baron from next door in a fencing duel, all before an inspired lunch (if your cook felt inspired that day).  Sounds like the renaissance to me.

At a higher cost than for just inspired skill rolls, you could use inspirational points to build permanently inspirational items.  With sufficient outside inspiration (gathered on travels, etc), you could, say, embed a +1 inspiration bonus in your chateau/castle.  You supervised the building from your comfortable lawn chair, after all.  Whenever you got home and could admire your own splendor for building such a lovely building, you'd get an inspiration point, and so would your guests.  But once you had that point in your pool, you couldn't add it again.  If you go somewhere else and spend the points on something inspired, you can go back home and receive the point again.