Enigma Trait Add-on idea

[Bankuei]

This rule allows players to simulate the hidden fact about a character.  You can buy traits for characters that you create, or other character's that the creator agrees to, that are not known to the other players, although you do write them down, and cannot be used for complications.  You have to pay double coins, the traits do add importance, but on Challenges, only give you double, or up to what you paid in coins, whichever is less.  Whenever you decide to reveal the enigma, it becomes a normal trait, although anything extra you spent is gone.

By buying Enigma traits, you are saying, "There is something I want to keep hidden about this character, but I do want to reveal it when the time is right".  If you're the creator, you can produce contradictory traits, such as "Sebastian's Daughter" as the obvious trait, and "Drake's Daughter in reality" as the Enigma trait.  If it's someone else's creation, you can add new twists that may fit with your story plans better("Only he carries the hidden power...")

These traits work well for mystery stories, noir stories, heroes with undiscovered powers, and soap operas.  Memento comes to mind as a movie that would incoporate this very well.

Chris

[Bob McNamee]

Interesting...

I would say "Why not wait until you want to reveal this, then buy it"
except I'm a big one for adding lots of stuff to the game, then not having the Coins to do neat stuff later. This would be a good way to get it made when I had the dough, but not show it till later.

The big risk for the player will be Challenges.
If, when you reveal your mysterious secret, it is challenged I would be inclined to rule that it doesn't get extra to defend itself (like an existing Fact) since no one had the opportunity to challenge it as a Fact until it was revealed (even though they could probably challenge you adding a hidden secret at the time you added it too).

Still,  cool concept... and maybe it being double the cost would be worth enough to make hidden secrets count as fact against Challenge...
...course if this gets added into a game as a rules gimmick, the players should know that things could and will take unexpected twists... they would be wise to add a few Tenets about wierdness etc...

Cool...

[Valamir]

Hey Chris, thanks for shareing.  Can you tell me a bit more about how you envision this working.

Specifically,

as Bob alluded to, what do you see as the benefit to adding the Trait as an Enigma rather than waiting to add it it when you wish to reveal it later.

I assume you're paying double for the privelige of keeping the secret for a time, but I'm confused by the limit you place on Challenges...the "whichever is less part".  If the Fact is kept secret does it need to be revealed in order to be used in a Challenge?

Can the trait be forceably revealed via a Complication?  If so how does the Complicating player know if the Complication is appropriate to the type of Trait involved?

I'm intrigued but having trouble visualizing how it work in play.

[Bankuei]

I would say "Why not wait until you want to reveal this, then buy it"
except I'm a big one for adding lots of stuff to the game, then not having the Coins to do neat stuff later. This would be a good way to get it made when I had the dough, but not show it till later.

First, you may not have enough coins at the time you WANT to reveal the fact, and other players may have added facts that either negate your planned revelation, or developed strong ideas about a character and will challenge anything you try to do.  This way, you basically call dibs at a high price for a fact that you want to keep secret, only for the sake of suspense, and an interesting story turn.  Some twists only work when revealed to the audience at the same time as the characters(in this case, the players are the audience).  The climax of The Empire Strikes Back, is the "Luke, I'm your father" scene, which totally would have lost its power if the fact was known beforehand.

Second, the limit on what it provides in Challenges makes the fact easier to defend, but not as easy as a open fact.  For example, if I get a 2 coin Enigma trait, which is a single normal trait/fact, just hidden, I could spend 10 coins to defend this trait.  Instead of doubling the coins, I only get 2 more coins.  Basically this makes it still better to get normal traits and facts rather than hidden ones, although it's just an extra balancer.

Third, an Enigma trait cannot be used in any Complications until it's revealed, therefore it doesn't cause any problems.   Basically, it's there as a plot twist, not as a gamist method to pull out an, "Aha! Gotcha!"

I don't see Enigma traits being forcably revealed, but I can see them being revealed in Complications by players who decide that the time is right and/or they need the dice.

Chris

[Mike Holmes]

Hmmm. Can the trait itself be challengedd when revealed? If not then this would be a way for people to slip in objectionable material without review. If one can cahllenge this means that if a Challenge occurs and one reveals this trait, that a spearate Challenge would have to be called temporarily interrupting the current one to determine if the new trait stood. As it stands this surprise presentation to a Challenge is the only use I can see for such a mechanic.

You're "might not have enough Coins" argument does not stand. If you really want that Trait, then you can just as easily set aside Coins for it as spend twice that many earlier. There is never a case where you are forced to use Coins. If you spend that "reserved" Coin, then presumably what you spent it on was more important than what it had previously been reserved for.

What you are proposing is a bit like escrow, in that it enures that the money will be available when you need it. But note that escrow is usually only required by an outside party as insurance. In this case what you are suggesting is more like and IRA or something where you are forced to save for a certain event.

So I can see it as an option, I guess. For players who want a tool to ensure that they get something in early. Has some similarities to the Plot Pool gimmick.

Mike

[Bankuei]

I suppose you're correct in that, Mike.  I keep forgetting that my experiences with Universalis(very cooperative group, very few challenges) doesn't mean everyone gets that same experience.

I just think it sucks to have to keep negotiating/challenge to get a story idea in AND have to reveal what could be a good plot twist.  Not to overemphasize the power of surprise, but to add that twist that might be lacking when everything's on the table for everyone.

Would you have some suggestions as to other methods that might work?

Chris

[Mike Holmes]

I suppose you're correct in that, Mike.  I keep forgetting that my experiences with Universalis(very cooperative group, very few challenges) doesn't mean everyone gets that same experience.

I just think it sucks to have to keep negotiating/challenge to get a story idea in AND have to reveal what could be a good plot twist.  Not to overemphasize the power of surprise, but to add that twist that might be lacking when everything's on the table for everyone.

Would you have some suggestions as to other methods that might work?

Challenges occur only rarely in games I play. Say once every other scene, and when they do occur, they are almost always resolved by negotiation (I've seen only one bid in the last six months). If I give any other impression, then I apollogize. But we have to consider the effects of the mechanics being used potentially when we play. That is, a player should have the right to challenge. The right is actually more important than the use, because (like a law) it informs the player that they have to abide by the group consensus.

That said, people may want to challenge and as such that means that we have to consider how it would work with the add-on in play. People with few or no challenges will, of course, not be bothered by the addition.

To be precise, an already infinite number of nested chllenges can occur with any challenge already. That is, if I want to introduce an extant Fact to an ongoing challenge, this introduciton can be challenged. And a player can introduce facts into that Challenge, which can themselves be Challenged, ad Infinitum or at least ad Nauseum. As such another potential challenge really isn't that much of an addition. It should just be mentioned in the write-up.

OTOH, I do see these getting challenged a lot. Surprises out of the blue, are probably among those things which I can imagine which would most potentially disturb players. This is fine, however, and a natural part of the game. It simply means that the player making the Enigma Trait will have to make sure it's a cool one. Which is fine.

So I retract my previous problem with the mechanic. And I think we should add it to the list. I don't see it as hugely useful, but if a player feels a need to use it, why not make it available (since it doesn't really seem to have any downsides)?

Mike

[Bankuei]

No need to apologize, I just forget that for every system, there's room for abuse.  I was thinking in the spirit of cooperative play.  I could see the Enigma trait being challenged at tiime of creation, basically other players saying,"No, we don't want any mysteries on this character".  And I definitely saw Fines coming into play if it turns out someone was using Enigma Traits to defend against challenges that did not apply at a later point.

Chris

[Mike Holmes]

I could see the Enigma trait being challenged at time of creation, basically other players saying,"No, we don't want any mysteries on this character".  And I definitely saw Fines coming into play if it turns out someone was using Enigma Traits to defend against challenges that did not apply at a later point.

Hmmm. So it would be a gamble? Players would have to trust the player buying the Enigma Trait? That's cool. Abuse it once, and all further ones will be challenged out of existence.

I could see that.

In fact I could see a whole array of Add-ons that took advantage of a game in which challenges were reduced in power. Hmmm...

Mike

[Bankuei]

I was seeing Enigma Traits being used primarily in games where mysteries make for good twists, such as film noir, spy stories, etc.  Think of the many story twists that have worked off of a single character fact/trait that altered the nature of the story(Darth Vader, the Pikey from Snatch,  Kaiser Soze, etc).

Instead of buying "Mysterious" as a trait for a character you intend to reveal facts about later, just buy an Enigma Trait and reveal it when the time is right.  Again, if someone is being abusive, they'll get put down very quick via fines/challenges.  

In fact I could see a whole array of Add-ons that took advantage of a game in which challenges were reduced in power. Hmmm...

Could you elaborate Mike?  I'd be pretty interested in seeing some new add-ons, too.

Chris

[Mike Holmes]

Well, the obvious example is to eliminate Control of objects and allow anyone to affect any Component at any time. Complications whould then either be dropped entirely, or initiating a Complication pool would require an investment of a Coin to back a side. Rules like that.

Makes for a very simple game, but one which will not drive itself enough for some groups. Without Complications and the like, what you get is just a complicated version of "pass the seashell". People who want to play this way certainly should, but we made the basic structure of the game more complicated than this because we feel that the added structures add in subtle ways the what is produced in play.

But this is why we have Gimmicks.

Mike