Converting from pen & paper to keyboard & mouse...

[CC Douglas]

Ok, I'm new here so I hope this isn't a topic that's been run through many times before or anything...

I love rpg's. I love to program. I love the internet. I live in the sticks where people to play with are very hard to find. Natural progression, then, is for me to want to create some sort of way for people to be able to play their favorite rpg's over the 'net from around the world. I've seen the discussions on PBEM rpg's and it seemed to spark interest. What would your thoughts be on a application written specifically for playing your favorite rpg through a custom chat-style program that would include all necessary tools needed?  

Ok. First off, I don't have any particular system in mind.After my very short time around here, I've seen mention of so many great systems, I wouldn't know where to start. Most obvious place to start would be with the system creator's permission to do such a thing. But would you, as fans, take to such a thing?

My immediate thoughts and concerns:

1)can a chat interface and gm tools properly give the correct feel and setting for a game created as a pen and paper game?

2)what sort of tools would the GM need? or the players?

3)can an application be made to support more than one system? (I suppose more of a programmer's question)

4)would developers go for it?

5)would hard-core fans go for it?

6)what is the best system(s) for such an application?

Before it gets mentioned, yes I know WebRPG does this sort of thing. But they charge. My thought is "If players have already payed for the rulebooks and such, why should they pay for a program to play that game?" The only incurred charges would be a stable server for listing games in session, schedules, session data, characters, etc. (actually game sessions would be peer to peer)but there are ways to work that out.


Any thoughts?

[contracycle]

There have been a number of discussions of computers in RPG, Computed Assisted RPG, what you can and should put on a CD etc.  It's pretty safe to say that no conclusions have been drawn to date; check out prior threads (mostly in Publishing).

I'm less interested in using the web as the medium of play than I am in using computers to generate play "accessories".  IMO there may be an opportunity for a new generation of very hi-tech RPG's which arrive on CD and carry a number of helper apps, mapping software, and heavy graphics.  Something like a notional Blue Planet disk:

- a large zoomable map of the planet
- zoomable, detailed, multilayered island maps
- sea floor maps with geological layers marked
- "view" shots, probably generated by Terragen
- lots n lots of maps of cities, places, spaces
- 3D models of tools, weaponry, vehicles
- walkable 3D environments ala many FPS games
- Talking Heads to represent newscasters etc and  which take text inputs, like Ana Nova
- pseudo-interfaces for in-game computers
- character generators like the HeroMachine (and specific to setting)

I could go on.  The only problem with this sort of model is that to do it really well would require a budget far in excess, I think, of that available to most of the hobby.  Perhaps that could be alleviated by working more towards other properties, frex the Matrix.  Nevertheless, I feel that a potential "all singing all dancing" RPG kit-onna-CD is possible, the only question is as to whether its plausible.  None of this requires that actual play moves from the tabletop - the best of both worlds IMO.

Another possible analogy/possibility, given that so many games have a web presence these days: the fansite kit.  DL a zip with the iconic grpahics, borders, bullets, backgrounds, fonts - etc etc - so that fans acan construct aesthetically coherent net presences.  Lots of computer games do this sort of thing these days.  A good example of this being done spontaneously are the L5R fansites which used scanned/stolen/borrowed images just because they are Cool.

We have 700MB available on a CD, and most rule-sets run to a few K.

[greyorm]

My group plays regularly via a chatroom on mIRC, and have done so for ~six years now. We have a dice-rolling script and that's it. We have occasionally used the web to store and update character sheets and such.
We have been looking for something we could use to create graphical representations of envrionments and miniatures (complete with the ability to move items around on such maps).

OpenRPG is similar to WebPRG, but it is free, as is D20Map and the one we have been looking into most, Klooge's Digital Gaming Table, which is not free. There are also a number of other similar programs in various states of development or disrepair that I won't bother to list here.

You might wish to check out some of these for an idea of what works, what doesn't, what others have already done and what you would add/change/remove/etc in your own project.

As to your other questions:
1) It will give a different feel. Whether that is the "correct" feel is entirely up to the group itself.

2) That depends on the group. Some will want the ability to have character sheets at the group's fingertips, some won't care, most will want to have dice rolling ability with all the various modifiers and whatnot used (some will want to be able to put a description along with the roll).

3) Yes. GRIP aims to do this, and a few others (including two of those mentioned above).

4) Some have.

5) Depends on what you mean by "hard-core fans." Some folks will like it, some won't. I know individuals who refuse to play on-line, I know others who love it.

6) I doubt there is any "best system," but IMO, more complex systems would benefit most from an electronic system to help keep track of all necessary information during play on-line.

[CC Douglas]

Thanks for the responses. They give me some things to think about.

One thing that came to my mind last night as I feebly attempted to force sleep was the idea of creating such programs and having them actually packaged with certain rpg systems (on CD for packaged games, as a download for pdf). This would allow easy access for players as well as customizing each version of the software for that particular game.

Just another idea, anyway. If I were to be approached for such a thing, I'd work out more details on the idea.

[Eric J.]

Few Problems (in contrary to very very obvious benefits):

-As an RPGer I simply can't concieve of generating a feeling comperable to sitting around a table with a computer.  The reasoning is the same if you compare computer to console gaming.  If you want to play some stupid game casually to talk with your friends, well there are how many James Bond games?  It is simply a matter of perspective.

-I would agree that application is the way to go.  I wouldn't waste time creating before game utilities, because they're completelley irrelevant, but if you designed a program for tabletop, ingame use I would conviece a patent application (figerativelley).

-Ever try to play monopoly on the computer?  It's horrible, after a while.  The implication would be the same here.

-MIRC chat is fun for RPGing, but I find it two-dimentional.  The amount of antics that you can convey is limited, and your play may be more focused.  Thoes can be good or bad qualites.  I simply don't think that a computer can substitute an overnight with your friends any more than it could substitute a girlfriend.

-I beleive that, if done right, your system could work.  However, I would rather see a websight that offered resources and chat rooms with RPG tools.  The layout of a situation can make all the difference.

(I'm sorry for the rambly post, but since I've been writing in english class more than the internet latelley, I'm starting to sound like an average high-schooler.)

[CC Douglas]

By the website, what exactly did you have in mind? A site devoted to exploring tools to assist in table top games with a helpful chatroom ( I know one under development at this moment), or something leaning more towards my original idea?

I'm also not above creating tools for in-game table top use. Not only could they be valuable in a local session, but could be used in the same way for internet based games.

I do understand your concerns about the effectiveness of my idea. In order to succeed, perhaps the best way to go would be to work directly with a developer personally, so that as much as possible could be implemented--I'd jump at such an opportunity. But there still is a place for a more generic/template solution, too, I think.

A big reason for all this is a way to reach players who are desperate to find others to play with. Sure, gathering around the table for an evening of fun is obviously the best way to play, but for me and many others like me there is just no such option. My location prevents me from such an ideal environment.  The internet is the obvious solution, and real-time play the best way to go. I'd personally love to play some new rpg's developed by the talent here, but finding others without hours of driving is not realistic. Not to mention, it could be a great way to get fans a method of playing with even the developer of the game--well, it would be interesting..lol

But it boils down to this-- if I had an convenient way to play some of the games showcased or mentioned here, I'd buy them. I feel I (and many, many others around the world I'm sure) am missing out on some great games simply because there's no one to play with. And a good net system could be an/the only answer.

[Eric J.]

I understand.  That would be one of the obvious benefits I would have spoken about.  I think that the very neccecity of that would be enough to make this marketable.  I don't know if it would be enough to make it succecfull.

An example of a websight that could be similar would be Neveron.  If you have any experience with that, you would know about the online community's benefits.  The websight program, in my mind, would be focused on a (or a few) specific games and would have a screen for it's particular play.  The websight would have accecories for this game, as well as various programs that would allow you to match up with eachother.  Other uses, would be in graphical representation, like in cutscenes, or better yet, music.  The posabilities are endless.

[M. J. Young]

I ran a chatroom game once, once a week for several months. It was grueling. Here are some of the problems; if you can address these, it would help immensely:

[*]Identifying voices: as referee, I'm often running several characters at once; but I don't have any of the tricks I would use live. One or two click selection of fonts or colors or any of a lot of things would go a long way to helping this, particularly if supported by keyboard shortcuts--that way I could identify the look of the text with a character, and not keep having to say, "The bartender says...the hooded man says...the woman in the corner says" as part of the text.

[*]Targeting individuals: at the table I can look at a player and he knows I'm talking to his character. On the screen, I need a shortcut that gets me out of constantly writing "says to Bill" et cetera. I'm not sure how you'd do this, although if there was a quick way to click the name of a room occcupant and have that person addressed in the text, that would help.

[*]I dislike emoticons, but something like them to easily convey tone of voice would be helpful, if they can be used faster than typing the words.

[*]Most of these things have a private message system; but the private messages can't be allowed to get in the way of the room discussion, or the referee looses the thread. Maybe a side window for private messages would work.

[*]Dice rolling that isn't complicated. Particularly, if you could pre-code dice buttons. Thus I could set up for Multiverser by appointing a d100, a 3d10, a 2d20, and a d30+10, and that would cover nearly every roll I'd need to make without me having to write something complicated like Roll (dice) 2 (sides) 30 (add) 10. Keep the line code as an option for those unusual rolls, but let the main ones be assignable and automatic.
[/list:u]

I hope that helps. I suspect there's more, but if you can do this much, that's something.

--M. J. Young[/list]

[CC Douglas]

I think all of those could be addressed easily enough. Here's a few ideas:

Multiple GM characters--A GM should always spend time preparing for a session. This is no different for face to face than it would be for net play.  How about if the GM set up a NPC list in his preps and then could choose that NPC from a  drop down list during play. The program would automatically add in "The bartender says" before the actual typed message. Another suitable tool would be to have a choice of certain social interactions. By choosing "The bartender," then choosing the social "sighs" from it's list, the message sent would simply be "The bartender sighs." Mutliple fonts and text colors chosen ahead of time for each NPC would also be an option.

Targeting certain players--exactly as you mentioned. By simply clicking on one name in the player's list, actions can be pointed directly towards that player.

Emoticons--see the "socials" mentioned above :)

Private messages--two options here. One, have seperate windows for the PM's as you mentioned. or Two, have PM's appear in the normal chat window, but in a different color, and saying "Bjorn whispers blah blah blah."

Dice rolls-- there are so many ways to handle these. The best thing to do here would be to test several methods, and/or have different options for the GM to set up. Also include an option that can show or hide dice rolls from other players. Maybe in order to keep the rp smooth, you might want the dice rolls only to show up on the rolling player's screen and yours, or maybe they should show up on everyone's screen. That's the GM's discretion.

Hope those answer some of your troubles. Mind you, I've not done any of these in a program as of yet, but they are all completely feasible if not quite simple.

[Eric J.]

BTW-Welcome to the Forge!

[CC Douglas]

hey, thanks! hehehe