Basic rules for my game Frontier, lemme know what you think.

[Le Joueur]

Hey Sylus,

Welcome to the Forge, sorry about the intense heat; dunno what's wrong with the thermostat.  Anyway...

Y'know, we're talking about almost the exact problem elsewhere.  Over in Why do games have to have a 'premise?', exactly this question has come up; except we're talking about the question instead of asking it.  The reason "Why should I play your game?" has been 'shot down' is because, as it has here, it puts the thread-author on the defensive.

Several alternatives have been listed like "What do you do in this game?" "What types of play does your game best support?" "What does your game have to make it cool?" "Why did you choose to design it this way? (Id est, what features were you attempting to support? Does your design support them?)" "Is it about what you want the game to be about?" And so on.

Don't take the earlier challenge as some sort of insult; like saying your game isn't worth anything because it didn't go first.  I think what is being asked here is what makes your game distinctive?  If you'd like design critique, in order to tell you what works and what doesn't, people will need to know what you were trying to accomplish.  You can't simply say 'it lets you do anything you want,' because people who might play it won't give it a second look because they might not know what they want.  Most games give you something; what's the something for your game?

Is that better?

Fang Langford

p. s. It really is a good thread, you should go over and read it before going on here.

[Walt Freitag]

Welcome to the Forge, sorry about the intense heat; dunno what's wrong with the thermostat.

Nicely put, Fang.

Sylus, since the "big question" can be difficult to answer no matter how it's phrased, let me ask a smaller one. (Only slightly smaller, though.)

As you say in your summary paragraph, "the whole thing is skill based." Meaning, I think, that the rules you've presented here are a bare framework, which becomes a complete system when and only when the skill rules are filled in. (And even if that's not what you meant, that's how I interpret what's been presented so far.) How do you envision that happening? Are players supposed to invent their own skills? Or are skill lists going to be part of the supplemental settings? Or are GMs supposed to invent skill choices for players?

Defining skills is a large and complex task. So is the alternative, providing workable guidelines for open-ended player-defined skill systems as in Hero System. (Just ask Pale Fire, who recently decided to overhaul his design for Ygg after running into what seemed at first like a few minor issues with its skill system.) Conventional skill descriptions include skill point costs to acquire the skill, the scope of actions the skill allows (often within the context of a specific setting), which requisite the skill roll is based on, and often, prerequisites for learning the skill, descriptions and costs for required materials, some sort of guidelines for the GM concerning what difficulty modifiers to apply in specific situations, and effects of failure. For example, what kind of walls does the "climb walls" skill apply to at what modifiers, and what happens to a character who fails an attempt? (Sure, as a GM I can wing it if the system doesn't tell me. But I can also wing it from the beginning without using the system at all. If I'm using this type of system it's because I expect it to help me with such things.)

And that's just for the basic "one paragraph to one page" skills. Some skills tend to run whole chapters, like magic, weapon use, superpowers, healing, and so forth.

So, are settings to be defined largely through the applicable skill rules provided in setting books? Is there a core set of non-setting-specific skills? Do you plan for skill rules to include performance or difficulty factors, such as in the climbing example? Since the whole system is skill based, trying to evaluate it without the skills is a bit like trying to review a restuarant without tasting (or even seeing) the food.

- Walt

[Sylus Thane]

As you say in your summary paragraph, "the whole thing is skill based." Meaning, I think, that the rules you've presented here are a bare framework, which becomes a complete system when and only when the skill rules are filled in. (And even if that's not what you meant, that's how I interpret what's been presented so far.) How do you envision that happening? Are players supposed to invent their own skills? Or are skill lists going to be part of the supplemental settings? Or are GMs supposed to invent skill choices for players?

Actually there will be skill list provided with rules. There will also be setting specific skills provided with the settings. Also, players and gm's will be encouraged to add to the skill lists if they feel it is not complete or if they cannot find a skill appropriate to what they want to do.

I know it seems a little incomplete without a skill list presented with the rules, but I also didn't want to bog down the forum with a horrendously long post.

As far as a hook for the game, I'm not sure what it is yet, except for maybe being able to do whatever you want. That was the main plan when I designed it. I know it doesn't seem like it can right now, I left out a few things that either weren't done or would make my post horribly long, like magic and super powers. Plus with it being skill based players don't have to worry about being confined to classes and things like that as well as being to mix and match genres as they please without worrying if this set of rules will work with the others. I've painstakingly tried to make sure that they went together seemlessly, that's why some rules still aren't done.

Plus as I release settings I am going to make sure that they are detailed enough to begin playing easily, but not so detailed that they restrict what gm's and players feel they can do without screwing up some metaplot that the whole setting is based off of. The settings are also taking awhile because of that too.

I honestly just threw up the basics of the rules because I had hit a slump of not knowing what to do at the moment and figured I would just get some feedback while I was stuck. If people are interested I set up a forum with the guys I am working with that shows all the progress we have made so far on settings and well as it linking to all of the writeups I have done to the rules so far. It's available at http://pub35.ezboard.com/blosthorizons22536 . Plus also if people are needing space to work on stuff and need heads to bounce ideas off of I'm more than willing to share the site.

Anyway, I hope this clarifies things some.

Sylus

[Walt Freitag]

Could you be any more specific about what it is you're stuck on? That might be a way to scare up some more helpful feedback.

- Walt

[Sylus Thane]

Actually I'm stuck on rules for super powers. I'm just not real sure where to start with them.

Sylus

[Andrew Martin]

Actually I'm stuck on rules for super powers. I'm just not real sure where to start with them.

You could copy the rules for Fuzion Superpowers, after all your game system so far is very similar to Fuzion. Here's one version: http://www.mecha.com/~conkle/fuzion/superpowers.html

I hope that helps!