Torchbearer: Vision and Duty Traces

[Shreyas Sampat]

I was considering the transformative model of Torchbearer magic, and its effects on the game's mechanics.

Basically, the transformative model says that whenever you activate a magical trait, it replaces an ordinary trait.  You use magic to turn into the being you want to be.

However, the mechanic I have for 'paying the cost of magic' assumes an additive model, where you gain a new trait when doing magic.  Then, for each bonus you get from the magic, you have to suffer from its lingering penalty.

So, how do we simulate this in the transformative model?

Traces that operate on Vision and Duty rather than Smoke.  A Vision/Duty Trace changes one of those.  It dissipates as you resist it, weakening each time you act in accord with your original Vision or Duty such that you would be rewarded.

[Jonathan Walton]

A Vision/Duty Trace changes one of those.  It dissipates as you resist it, weakening each time you act in accord with your original Vision or Duty such that you would be rewarded.

Cool idea.  But what temptation/reason does the character have to NOT act in accord with the old vision?  It seems like, if my character's Vision gets replaced (and I can just act as per my old Vision in order to change it back), I have little reason to abide by the new Vision that's been given to me.

With Smoke Traces, you avoided this problem because you have to be hampered by the Smoke in order for it to dissipate (similar to the way Restrictions work in "Nobilis," where you get bonus points when your Handicaps afflict you).  The way you're describing Vision/Duty Traces makes them seem to be the exact opposite.

Later.
Jonathan

[Jonathan Walton]

EDIT: My post got duplicated.

[Shreyas Sampat]

Temptation:
In accord with the Fuel rules, acting in accord with the current Vision/Duty creates Fuel, which arguably is significantly more valuable than dice in conflicts.
I grant that there's definitely a problem here, though; that's why I posted the idea.  An alternative might be to say "When you act in accord with your Vision/Duty Trace and would gain Fuel from it, instead it reduces the Trace."  That not only forces you to suffer for the Trace, but enforces the theme of transformation dramatically.
Unfortunately, this raises the problem of the cost of magic; under this model, the cost of a magical bonus die is at least 1 Fuel, closer to two at the low end.  The additive model with Smoke Traces, which cost cheap dice, makes for profoundly different costs.

The simplest way I can see to solve this problem would be to change the Trace-counting mechanic: Rather than having Vision/Duty Traces count bonus dice, they count conflicts.  Depending on the way the game is run, this could be drastically under- or over-costed, though.

Sigh.

[Jonathan Walton]

Hmm, I'm beginning to see your dilemma.

So you've decided against having lingering Smoke Traces from magically-created Traits?  The only problem I see with that is that it limits magically-created Smokes to being things of short duration, if the Smoke will simply fade out after the scene in which it is invoked.  For example, if "The Ferryman Takes His Toll" doesn't get used in a scene, Varashi doesn't really have to suffer the consequences of using her power.  Maybe the Smoke half of magically-activated Trait Pairs could linger around, replacing another, lesser Smoke until the Trace vanished.  Just another option.

Still, I really like the idea of Vision/Duty Traces as a result of too much transformative magic.  It just works, as a concept.  I could see players picking a few "Dissonant Visions/Duties" for their character, self-destructive desires that the character struggled against.  Then, when they used too much power, their personality would warp towards those things.  The problem is that system you have rewards players for giving in to their character's flaws (a great mechanic!), and giving into a Dissonant Vision/Duty should make it stronger!  Ex. Varashi tries to resist hating all Skinchangers, but has a dark desire to kill them all for the pain she has suffered.  If she gives into that desire, it should grow, even running the risk of putting her Vision/Duty into Crisis and replacing it.

So, your second suggestion might work something like this: you could dissapate a False Vision by acting in line with your old Vision, but you wouldn't get Fuel for doing so until the False Vision was completely gone.  On the other hand, acting in league with the False Vision would give you Fuel (maybe double the normal Fuel), but would also add to the Trace.  And, if the Trace got high enough, it would trigger a Crisis and try to become your real Vision. (Yes, this last bit is my own suggestion, tacked on).

The difference in cost, I think, is another issue entirely.  If you decide that "this is how magic works in Torchbearer," then the cost doesn't really matter.  People will pay the cost to use magic, or they won't.  What you want is to tailor the cost so that people are more likely to use magic at a freqency that you like and in ways that support what you're trying to do.  The transformative model seems to reward players who don't care about their Vision/Duty and want to give in to their dark side.  This, I think, might not be appropriate all the time (and could be abused).  However, the Smoke model seems to be a bit too traditional, giving the characters external hassles for using magic.  There's no real internal conflict.

Unfortunately, I don't think either really does what you want it to.  Maybe there's some other concept that would combine the two or do something completely different.

Later.
Jonathan

[Shreyas Sampat]

So you've decided against having lingering Smoke Traces from magically-created Traits?

My issue here is with grace more than game; it's not elegant for half of a magical transformation to fade and the other half have lingering effects, except in certain unusual circumstances (The skinchanger who becomes ravenously hungry after returning to her human shape...).  I do like the option of the lingering Trace just sticking around on top of the Smoke it replaced, rather than sliding out of overlap and becoming an additive Trace; I don't know why I didn't think of that.

Here's a thought:
Three simultaneous Traces use the ordinary mechanic.  The fourth breaks the Rule of Three, so it steps up to the False Vision mechanic.  This Vision takes on a Trace that can't go above nine, and behaves as you described it (brilliantly), dissipating when you act (without reward) per your original nature and becoming stronger if you give in.  Like Myth, it obeys a Law of Nine, and when it tries to push past nine it goes into Crisis automatically; this Crisis determines whether the False Vision takes root and becomes true, or is reduced by some amount in a moment of catharsis.

There, we have two overlapping systems that, in combination, make some deep statement about self-cultivation.  I think.  What it does do is make magic reasonably attractive, while setting a cap on the sheer cumulative power you can come across at once without raising your Myth.  But, does it create Torchbearer magic?  I don't know.

I'm also considering a mechanic where you can 'demote' the False Vision to a Smoke Trace of triple the quantity, if you have fewer than three Smoke Traces.  I have to think on this more deeply, though.

[Jonathan Walton]

Does this create Torchbearer magic?  I don't think you'll know until you playtest it or write out an extensive Example of Play.  It definitely is starting to look good on paper.

This does bring up one more point, though (groan), about system symmetry.  If you have 3 magically-created Smoke Traces and try to gain another one, it gives you a False Vision.  But...

-- Can magically-created Traits replace existing Traits that already have Smoke Traces?  If so, how is this done?  

-- If not, do normal Smoke Traces count towards the Rule of 3?

-- Can you have more than 3 normal Smoke Traces (non-transformative) without any ill effects?

This makes me think you might want to unify things.  What do you think about this:

Smoke Traces are Smoke Traces, no matter whether they are magically-created or not.  Transforming a Trait that already has a Trace doesn't change or remove the amount of Traces it carries.  Any new Traces are simply added on.  

Traces/Masks all max out at 9, at which point they send the appropriate Trait (whether Smoke, Vision, or Duty) into immediate Crisis, where they may end up replacing or altering the permanent Trait.  Traits currently in a Trace-provoked Crisis count towards the Rule of Three.

You can never have more than 3 Traces at a time.  If you are in a situation where you would gain a 4th, you instead gain a Vision/Duty Mask.  If the majority of your Smokes are non-transformative, it should be a Duty Mask.  If the majority is transformative (created by magic), you gain a Vision Mask.  If it's evenly split, you can decide based on circumstances.  As described above, Masks can send Traits into Crisis just like Traces.

I'm not sure what that would do to your system, but it does unify the mechanics across the board.  Then again, you may or may not want that, I don't know.

Also, this brings up the point: What does Duty do?  If Vision provides you with a way to gain Fuel, then a Vision Mask is certainly dangerous.  Is there anything about Duty that makes a Duty Mask something to worry about?  If not, you might just ditch that option and go with Vision Masks completely.  Still, it'd be nice if you could put all-Traits into Crisis this way.

Another thing: perhaps Traits put in Crisis because of Traces/Masks count towards the Rule of 3 for the purpose of raising Heart or Story Myths, or perhaps they don't.  You'd probably have to make a call here.

Again, these are just off-the-top-of-my-head ideas.

Later.
Jonathan