What's this? Did Pyron have a GOOD session?

[Eric J.]

Star Wars: D6
Players:5
Jesse- Wanabee Mercenery; Party leader; Law abider
Anthony- Former CorSec(Republic) leutenant;  Pilot
Cody- Medic; Fugative; Soldier; Fugative
Charly- Actual Mercenary; Follower
Doug- Slicer; Mercenary; Outcast

This is the third session in this campaign.  To you it might not seem much, but to me it amounts to at least 18 hours of play.   I began as a raving luinatec, and gave everyone enough freedom to make their characters however they wanted.  I decided from that, which period to put them into, and it was several thousand years before episode 1.  Before the coming of the Jedi.  I started the campaign aboard a space station.  Cody and Jesse were the main characters.  Jesse recruted Charly and Doug, and were off to the planet (Correllia).  Cody tried to quit his job, and was put under arrest (It's more complicated than that.).  He escaped from the guards and in the beutiful fashion, that only I can do :), he got to the docking port at the same time as the other PCs.  They saw a medic being fired upon by guys in black (presumably some cult, instead of the guards that they actually are), and take him and get down to the planet.  They get down and go one of their employer's bases.  They retrieve some equipment and set out.  Anthony finally comes in and starts firing upon them.  He misses because of the fog.  Eventually a giant mutant attacks Cody.  Anyway, this session:
(Monster=Giant Mutant=Creature)

Anthony got shot down by something he doesn't know yet.
They defeat the monster by ramming him.
They find Anthony.
He is taken into the party through logical dialog.
Charly and Jesse go in search for the creature to investigate.
They find two creatures.
They shoot the collers on them.
They tame them.
Anthony stalls their mission untill Corsec arrives.
Corsec arrives.
Anthony shoots their only remaining speeder.
Corsec is about to arrest everyone and in a twist of fate hold Anthony for ___treason.  They wait for a prisoner ship.

Problem: The PCs didn't want to get in trouble with the law.  They REALLY don't want to get in trouble with the law.  I tell them to Meta-game, jokingly.  They take it litterally.  Oh well.

They take down the guards, and they escape on the tamed creatures.
The prison ship arrives and is destroyed by the guard's ship.
They encounter 8 mutants.
They destroy some collers, turning creature against creature.
They escape into the night, and are ready to raid the installation.

END


So, to the few of you who are patiant enough to interpret/stand my incoherent ramblings: What do you think?  Followup shows an 8/10 score.  Their favorite moments were thoes when they were protagonized the most.  This should become easier as they level up, since I recognize it. Despite it's superficial flaws I should turn this into a narrativist piece of work.[/quote]

[Ron Edwards]

Hi Eric,

Me, I'm ecstatic. I've followed your in-play posts closely ever since you arrived at the Forge, and at one point, one of the Woes threads that was really skin-crawling, I was certain you were just going to say, "Screw this," and be done. Now I'm gazing in awe: three successful sessions, protagonizing, GM-hands-off, but also GM-strong-goals, and it all looks great. Congratulations and I'm looking forward to seeing you some time when we can be in the same game.

Best,
Ron

[Bankuei]

Is there anything in particular that you've done differently or that has contributed to these successful sessions?

Chris

[Eric J.]

I'm sorry that it's taken so long to reply, but here it goes.

First:  This is the first time that I've actually gone into the use of player protagonism in it's entirety.  It was funny after they killed off all of the monsters the second time.  I got a lot of "Huh?"s, for it was I who said, "Well, that's an episode in player protagonism if I've ever seen one."

We had the RPG at a friends house, and I think that it's been said on these forums that such a case is a nececity for good play.

I had session breaks at regular intervals, since I decided that cliffhangers are better breaking points than directly after one.

We also had a good share of music from our favorite sources.

One problem that's always plagued our group has been my house.  We have always had enough space, especially for overnights, but I have 2 8 year old siblings. This sucks.  I am not insulting them for being 2 anoying little eight year olds, for it is not their fault.  However, it is a fact that isn't worth denying.

That is the begining.  I hope that I can improve untill I can get as good as everyone else.

[Bankuei]

First: This is the first time that I've actually gone into the use of player protagonism in it's entirety. It was funny after they killed off all of the monsters the second time. I got a lot of "Huh?"s, for it was I who said, "Well, that's an episode in player protagonism if I've ever seen one."

I'm not sure I understand.  Could you elaborate on your view of player protagonism?  As I understand it, player protagonism is about not stepping on character concepts (such as my character is the hero, my character is competent, etc.) more than just letting them win.  Can you give more examples of player protagonism in use in your game?

Chris

[Eric J.]

I would claim that the two are interlinked.  For one to elaberate and play to their character concept, they would simply have to win.  If they are a gambler, they need to get money.  If they are a doctor, they need to suceed at treating their patients.  If they are a little winey kid who snuck aboard a transport and have survived as a drifter, they need to survive unrealistic situations.  In my case, my players' characters were relativelley combat oriented, and in so being, are entitled to killing things as a means of protagonism.

[Bankuei]

Granted, characters who are combat oriented should be good at combat, since that's the concept of the character.  But, that isn't to say that the characters shouldn't face difficulty in the face of it.  

If Zohar the Mighty falls at the hands of a nameless pion goblin, that doesn't say much for Zohar, does it?  If Zohar has an epic battle and has to run from Magmus the dragon, that doesn't make Zohar weak does it?

This isn't to say to not let your players kick some ass sometimes.  What it is to say, is that they should also be challenged, too.  Losing isn't what makes deprotagonization, its ignoring and violating the concept behind the character.  So Zohar can lose, if the opposition is worthy.  It doesn't make Zohar weak, it means he's one bad mofo for being able to even dare tangling with the dragon, and then being able to escape on top of it.

Yes, players should be able to win, just not everything.  If there's no challenge, then there's no conflict.  And if you're worried about protagonism, there has to be conflict.

Chris

[Ron Edwards]

Hi there,

Chris, it's kind of hard to interpret a brief message and summary as clearly as necessary in order to present a criticism or comment like that. (Hmmm, that was a humpbacked sentence. I think all the verbs line up though.) I tend to take the benefit-of-the-doubt interpretation, myself.

I think it's clear that in Eric's previous sessions (or rather, previous games), the entire group fragmented multiple times over issues like "my guy wouldn't do that" and similar. Therefore, whether conflict was too-easy or not, at this stage, seems less important than the fact that players experienced and enjoyed any player-ownership at all.

Best,
Ron

[Eric J.]

They were definitelley a challenge.  In fact it took all session and a few near deaths to get to that point.  First was the first one, it was destroyed by a headon collission with one of their two speeder bikes.  This needed a lot of fudging.  One character got out of it undamaged (which REALLY pissed me off.) and the other should have died.  I think that the conflicts were of at least moderate difficulty, and if there is a problem in this category it is because I'm too hard.  I'm the hardest that I know of anyway.  Though, it is true that I've only killed off one character...

[Bankuei]

Sorry, went off a bit early there.  Sounds like you got it right, and if you're having a good time, that's great.  May I ask how that differs from your previous games?  Was the challenge too high in those?

Chris

[Eric J.]

I think that your question leads back into the protagonizing of characters.  Challenge is something that is inherently a part of protagonism in RPGs, for it is the nature of challenges that lead to player failure and thus character failure.  I have GMed little, in comparison to you guys, but the few times that I have GMed, I have had a few problems with overchallenging my players. Related thread at bottom.  Remember, I was only 13 or 14 then and had very little experience.  Despite what is said there, I was probably right in that situation and it's long gone. The Forge has really opened my eyes.  Sorry that the thread is elsewhere.

Visit here:
http://www.planetadnd.com/forums/viewtopic.php?mode=viewtopic&topic=1301&forum=22&start=0

[Eric J.]

Well the link was more or less ignored.  Probably for the best.  Oh well.  Anyway-

Session: 4

Game: Star Wars D6
Players: Same as before.
Characters: Same as before.

We started with them coming upon the compound on their mutant mantises.  One character has a pair of electrobinoculars so they spotted the compound.  A tank was coming up to it and someone got out of it.  The medic (Cody) shot it in a second.  Afterwords, they killed the other guy and the tank was theirs.  They slowly went towards the compound, after an encounter with an officer.  Once they got through the gates, a bunch of mutants started coming from some tube things from the ground.  They entered through the gate and into the facility.  There to greet them were two guards, six technicians, and the commander from the encounter before.  The driver (Charly) tried to stop the tank, but accidently ran over the commander (mishap!).  They kill the guards and are about to enter the heart of the facility.  The mutants, however, charge in from outside.  Charly's character shuts the door, killing one of them, but one still gets through.  The pilot and the medic get inside the tank, and the rest run into the facilitie's turbolift.  The fellowship is broken.  I decided, then to split it into two groups and proceed from there, seperately.

Group 1: I started off with the slicer, the leader and the benevolent mercenary.  They cracked the lockdown codes for the turbolift and were off to the 12th b-level.  They find that it's the power generator room, and swiftly run into the vast labyrinth.  Behind them is a pack of new mutants.  They get to a set of stairs and are attacked by the new mutants, which explode.  They go up the stairs to level seven.

Group 2: They take the bigger tank in the hanger bay and wait for 12 mutants to get into the doorway, then they start smashin' them.  At this point I told Anthony that he had to roll his will for this action, but he basically ignored me about how his character reacts to the fear. Their "plan" is to cause a gigantic destraction.  They start shooting at the mutants, and they shoot, and they shoot, and they shoot...  They get high rolls, and they shoot.  Eventually they are trapped and I virtually have to tell them to retreat.  Problem: they metagame to the point that they think  that they're invincible, just because they are PCs and got a few high rolls.  So they go down the path where they breed the mutants.

Group 1: They go up the stair system and I railroad them far enough to get them to the seventh floor.  Some guy lets them in during the lockdown because he's an idiot.  They kill the guy and heal themselves.  Afterwords the group travels through the room to the breeding hall.  My whole lttle trick, which is to get the groups together here, is foiled by out of game discussion.  I dicourage this and one of my players starts arguing with me because I won't tollerate his interuption.  I had to dock him 5 character points before he would stop.  Anyway, they get together and run from the mutants into a turbolift.  (More problems here, because one of the characters shot the controls because another of my players was being an idiot.)  They reach the 3rd basement level (which is where they're supposed to go, and I end there.

Aftermath:  Charly is angry because Cody has the most character points.
Doug is mad because I won't tolerate his annoyance.  Anthony continually tells me that his character's life doesn't matter because it's just a game, and repetively tells me that if the PCs die that there's no campaign.  Cody enjoys this because of it's almost entire gamist outlook.  Jesse continually struggles to maintain control.

What I'm trying to say is that, despite all of this, my session got a 70% Scratch that.  There are two players in my room that are constently criticizing me.  Oh well.  I don't know why I'm posting this, but maybe some people can give me some insight.