Human Wreckage: The Director's Cut

[hardcoremoose]

Hey guys,

I'm currently attempting to revise Human Wreckage to address some of the problems Ron noted in his review of it.  It's not finished yet...I am still working on fleshing out Good Business and Bad Business and how they can be used in a Scene, but there's enough new stuff present for people to get an idea of where I'm going with it.  I'd appreciate any feedback I could get from interested parties, even if it's just suggestions for what additional material I could include in the rules.  Here's the URL:

http://hardcoreroleplaying.homestead.com/wreckagedc.html

Take care,
Scott

[Mike Holmes]

Hi Scott,

OK, a couple of comments after reading what you've got.

First, you might give some suggestions for types of settings, especially to suggest isolation. Isolation is a classic part of slasher films, whether it be physical or mental or whathaveyou. Physical as in lost in the woods, Mental as in seeing things nobody else sees, etc.

For simultaneous scenes, what I'd do is say that when a new scene starts and is generally framed by the current director, the player who would be next can just declare that he is doing a simultaneous scene. Then as play goes around the table, each player who is in one of those scenes describes their take in that scene. That way the simultaneous scenes actually get played out like in a movie with the camera flashing back and forth between scenes.

For fake out dream sequences, include a rule that a player can just jot down somewhere before his scene that the next scene he frames is a dream sequence. At any time during the scene (preferably just before or at the death of one of his body count orhis lead) he can just reveal that it is a dream and nothing in that scene counts. Remember the scene in American Werewolf where the nurse opens the window? Perhaps you can burn a good business once per game to declare a scene a dream sequence. Also, consider that in the right seting characters should be killable in dreams.

You never really describe the differences between the statistics. How are they different? Statistically, over time the players will have the same amount of Good Business. It would be cool if business developed from one stat was different from that generated from another. That would make the selections interesting.

Most importantly, you never comment on when the horror of the form of the Antagonist is revealed. You only have rules on dropping hints, but if we played as you describe the game, we'd never get to know what was persuing the characters. You could include some nifty mechanic about leading up to that climactic moment. What I'd do is say that players can spend good business on their take or death scene "dropping clues", one clue per business. Roll a die for each clue dropped, on a 1-4 the clue is meaningful, on a 5-6 it's a red herring. When the total of meaningful clues reaches, say, ten, the player getting there gets to reveal the nature of the beast. Or for an alternative twist the Antagonist is revealed on the next Death Scene. This would lead to some interesting strategies where you'd want to build up slowly and then try to make a run at the threshold to get to be the one to create the Antagonist.

A similar mechanic should be used to defeat the creature at the end. There can be a similar pool where clues advance towards the players finding out about the menace, and another wher they score clues to figure out how to defeat it. If the players score ten clues (twenty if you include the ones to notice the menace) before the end of the game the climax scene happens, and they each get to roll to defeat the baddie (all surviving Leads are automaticaly included in the Climax Scene). If the Last lead must face a Death Scene, this becomes the Climax, and he must roll one Good Buisness for each clue the players were short of ten to defeat the Antagonist. If the creature has not been revealed before the climax scene, it is then, and its nature is determined by the player with the most Blood On His Hands.

Also, Denoument Scenes. After the climax scene, any surviving Leads get one free take. This can be as simple as saying the camera pans back and fades to black, or you can have the Leads do some tie up exposition and the captured villain say, "and I woulda gotten away with it if it weren't for those meddling kids!"

I'm interested to see what's in those empty categories. Fake outs is a method for saving your character after what looks to be a Death Scene, I'll bet.  :smile:

Mike Holmes

[hardcoremoose]

Everyone,

My third revision of Human Wreckage is now available at the above URL.  I think it's a much better game now, and if anyone has an interest, feel free to take a look and let me know what you think.

Mike - This version is the same as the one you've seen...I still need to clarify the player's focus and who they are supposed to identify with during the game (for those who are curious, you are supposed to see yourself as the movie director, not the Lead, but my text is vague on this point).  I'll get around to those fixes eventually - Human Wreckage: The Definitive Version, or something like that.

Take care,
Moose

[Ron Edwards]

Hi Scott,

As a general thing, I still think that what Human Wreckage needs is more motor for the essential storyline and less (or at least no more about) quibbles about exceptions. Simultaneous and fake-sequences are easy, frankly - what's needed is to make sure that the actual reels and scenes do what they're supposed to, structurally.

Does the first Splattertake scene work, considering that nobody has any BOYH to start? Does every round get at least one Splattertake in? Do Good Business and Bad Business add up to too many or too little actions? (My session of play was PACKED with too many, per "movement forward.") Does BOYH vary around the group as play progresses, or does the person who starts getting it just keep on getting it in excess of everyone else?

I'm beginning to sound like a broken record about this, but everyone who's writin' like a madman on their innovative game - and believe me, I've seen more amazing innovation in the last couple of months than in the last ten YEARS - needs to play it. Really play it, sit down with a few pals and see how it flies. Then play it again and again.

Starting to preach again ... damn it. Here comes that hook to yank me offstage.

Best,
Ron

[hardcoremoose]

Yo Ron,

The current version of Human Wreckage is the direct result of having played my second version (which itself was a revision incorporating many of the changes you suggested in your review).  

When you played the game, you noted that the game didn't move forward fast enough, and that there was not enough death and violence.  I changed some things and tried it, and found that everyone died too fast, not enough Good Business was generated to do anything fun,  and there were not enough Scenes or Reels to facilitate the telling of any kind of story.

The BOYH issue was a problem in both versions; whoever got the early lead became untouchable.  This was balanced in my game somewhat by the fact that one of the players didn't want to get BOYH; he wanted his characters to survive, and had the proper Tricks of the Trade to make this happen.  I've since made that a viable play goal with its own set of rewards and a stronger focus on the mechanic that allows Leads to survive.  Nonetheless, I'm still trying to think of some method to vary the way the BOYH works - perhaps a way of gambling it for added benefit, a way to "wash your hands" of it, or a way for other players to steal it.

One additional note:  In my playtest, I found my players wanting to manipulate characters not in their control.  This made sense to them, since they were supposed to be horror movie directords, but my rules did not allow for it.  That gave rise to the new rule that a player's Bad Business can be used by opposing players to create plotpoints for characters under that players control.  

Hopefully this third incarnation represents a nice middle ground, but you are correct...I need to play it and find out.  My players did "get" the game, and once they understood that Business rolls were not task resolution but rather plot devices, they jumped right into "director mode", trying hard to create the sort of cheesy plot contrivances familiar to the B-move horror movie genre.  Like I said before, our main problem was that they didn't have enough time and/or Business to do so.

Take care,
Scott

Editorial Note:  After re-reading Ron's message, I felt obliged to mention that I did do away with an entire set of mechanics (the "censorship" rules) aimed at solving player disputes, and I may get rid of Script Approval too.  Like Ron says in his review, it just didn't come up in play, and may not be necessary at all.

[ This Message was edited by: hardcoremoose on 2001-08-27 11:57 ]

[Esagila]

On 2001-08-27 00:20, hardcoremoose wrote:

I'll get around to those fixes eventually - Human Wreckage: The Definitive Version, or something like that.

Hey, Scott...

Being groupless, I can't help with the rules, but I had to let you know about the title... seems pretty obvious.

Human Wreckage: The Final Cut

Hey.. hey, put that down.

James