Exhaustion/Strain based Magic . . .

[Andrea Gualano]

So an extreme drain/exhaustion.  But what the actual system?

I'm sorry but that system never left the conceptual stage.

In Mike's numbers, a powerful spell such as "death curse" could even cost 500 points , while healing a cold be only a few.
It goes without saying that the cost of each spell also depends on the feel you want for the setting, so that spells you think are more appropriate are cheaper.

A simpler system would be just to state that certain spells require a recovery time of X days.

But Mike's proposal allows you to burn more and more energy up to a point. I like that.

I also like the idea of risking hp/stun/death for casting higher level spells, but I think the d20 system progression is way too fast for a "realistic" magic system, so that you'll end up with fireball throwing wizards anyway.

I'd be interesed in seeing a few more actual examples bandied about - referencing other systems and discussing theory is great, but does anyone have any rules ideas they'd like to share?

No, I haven't got anything playable after all...
I'll try to post something more in the next days.

[Chris]

With the possibility of HP burn in exchange for quick power, I was specifically thinking of this scene in Garth Nix's Lirael (i think some of the best fantasy out today is aimed at adolecents).  Lirael is a starting mage-type, able to cast basic spells (the magic is actually based around "charter marks", which are, in essence, runes).  When corned by this terrible moster, however, she draws on an intense amount of power, and the resulting spell (which does work), causes her to pass out, burns her mouth so she can't speak for two weeks, and nearly kills her.  She'd never do it again volentarily, but if its a choice between that and death . . . its like the magical equivilent of adrenaline, where you hear stories of mothers lifting trucks off of their babies.  And I'm not sure that having the fire-ball flinging mages is so bad over all - yeah, I've been heaping scorn upon them, but I just don't want them in my saga game.  Elsewhere it could be fine.  If I don't want fire-balls, I could always just ban fireballs - sorry, doesn't work that way in my world.

[Ron Edwards]

Hi there,

I have been remiss in not remembering the early 90s RPG, Sun & Storm, which might serve as the closest model for flexible, energy-based magic in the hobby. "Magic energy" in the game is very much like napalm - no matter what you do with it, it can flare up and cause all sorts of things, and it's costly to the body. What's even better is that the player sets the risk and power factor for these effects at the moment of each casting.

I highly recommend reading it; the whole issue we're discussing will be thrown into finer focus.

Best,
Ron

[Chris]

Okay, I just put my ideas for strain magic up as a Word document - any feedback would be great.  There's a disclaimer at the top with the problems I see with it already (very crunchy).  Let me know if its really close to anything out there; I don't feel a need to completely recreate the wheel.  And with 1440 games listed at rpg-list, thats always a danger.  

I've started a list of all the games people keep saying to check out, but we'll see how many my budget can support :)

http://theweekinreview.blogspot.com/v_rpgmagic.doc

[Mike Holmes]

My idea (which was based on the d20), had a MP (mental point) die, which worked just like the hit die - so it generates your clasic magic points...

Hmm. That's all very Rolemaster. Almost identical.

Here's an idea. What do you make your "save" against? Have that also be negatively impacted by a bad roll. Thus, as you blow saves, it makes you more likely to blow more and easier saves. In fact, you can have that be the only mechanic assuming that HP loss or the like are available results.

BTW, I'm a fan of randomizing these things to an extent. When you do so, it makes the character think about each use. But you have to have the odds shift on each use. Otherwise the roll just becomes "that thing you do when you cast a spell", and not much of a deterrent.

I mean either the random chance is marginal meaning that it's just an odd random event, or it's more likely to occur which makes being a mage so dangerous that nobody'd do it. With the sliding scale, the player determines their own risk level as they go, and has to consider each step as one deeper in the hole.

Mike

[Chris]

Hmm. That's all very Rolemaster. Almost identical.

Know your roots - RM was my very first roleplaying game (which I must say is QUITE a different introduction than D&D).  What I do with them is different, though it might be identical to some other system.  

With the sliding scale, the player determines their own risk level as they go, and has to consider each step as one deeper in the hole.

Thats exactly what I'm trying to do - I don't want magic to be so dangerous that no one does it, but that the cause/effect makes one weigh its use.  Which is why I still do like fate based games - you're taking a chance, but its a considered chance.  Ah, there's the bell.  Lunch is over.  Back to teaching my little 10th grade darlings.