Two attackers lead to a few questions...

[Prince of Thieves]

I can think of no better way to present my questions then to explain the fashion in which they arose in the first place... please bare with me.

2 combatants: PC with Morning-Star and Shield and bandit with Axe and Sheild. After battling a few exchanges to no effect the pair broke apart and then both threw red dice: two attackers. Lowest reflex declares attack first. PC declares Simultaneous Block/Strike with 6 dice, then bandit declares the same, Sim Block Strike w/ 6 dice. Now we roll to see who swings first: PC wins and begins his 2 dice bash at the bandit.

Question 1: Can the bandit defend? (Using the 4 dice from his Sim-Block/Strike manuever of course.) Or would he only be able to parry if the REFLEX roll earlier had tied? I ruled that yes he could block and so after the exchange both combatants attacks had been blocked. This lead me immidately to...

Question 2: the two attackers had now both swung but still had some dice in there pool. (4 and 3 respectivly) What happens now? Do we end this round after only one DUEL exchange, refresh CPs and throw dice again. Just throw dice again (with no refresh) to allow someone to shift to defense on 2nd exchange. Or force both combants to continue attacking for 2nd excahnge.

We can expand the above question to include the maneuver Evasive Attack. Does the increase to the oppentents ATN occur after declaration of the maneuver or only after execution. I lean toward declaration, even if the blade hasn't swung yet the swordsman is still leaping away.

Furthermore should a Round with two attacks be resolved with only one exchange instead of the ussual two? I tend to think so, therefore two attackers would want to spend their whole CPs to attack, excepting of course those saving to buy initiative. And in this case someone who excutes Simultaneous Block/Strike (and who is willing to gamble on their Defense roll) may be better served to spend their entire CP into the maneuver.

Lastly as a side note: how should one resolve Sim-Block/Strike manuevers that are not excuted with an number of Dice divisible by 3?
14 dice? Perhaps 10-4.
10 dice? Perhaps 7-3
5 dice? Perhaps 4-1.

I hope that is all somewhat clear and thanks in advance...

[Lance D. Allen]

In the case of a double-red engagement, if one or both of the attackers do simo-block and strike, their defense is rolled in opposition to the other's attack, as normal. In this case, the reflex roll just determines who's attack landed first.

Look at it like this.. They're both attacking at precisely the same instant, and defending at precisely the same instant. However, one is just a *bit* faster (the reflex roll) so their attack lands an instant sooner. Their opponent was already ready to defend though, so they do. However, if their defense is not sufficient, and they are hit, their attack may suffer from the pain and shock.

Likewise, if you are the defender and declare a simo-block and strike as your defense, your opponent's attack automatically goes first (as he had the initiative) unless you buy initiative. You still get to defend as normal, and launch your attack (probably undefended) if you have any dice left after his attack has been resolved.

Like most other basic questions about combat, this is one that can be tested on the combat simulator. Be sure to turn on the show rolls option, and set it up exactly as you did in combat.

[Brian Leybourne]

please bare with me.

OK, I'm naked. What now?

Oh, you didn't mean that kind of "bare"...?

Sorry, I'll be serious now. :-)

Lance already answered your question about defending. The simple answer is that even if you lose initiative, you still get tyhe defensive part of your action (if there is one) you just don't get the offensive part until the other guy is finished with his. Note that if you lose dice as the result of a succesful strike against you, your counter attack may not happen as you may have run out of dice to launch it.

Question 2: the two attackers had now both swung but still had some dice in there pool. (4 and 3 respectivly) What happens now? Do we end this round after only one DUEL exchange, refresh CPs and throw dice again. Just throw dice again (with no refresh) to allow someone to shift to defense on 2nd exchange. Or force both combants to continue attacking for 2nd excahnge.

Attack/Attack always ends the round and calls for a dice throw/initiative again.

Lastly as a side note: how should one resolve Sim-Block/Strike manuevers that are not excuted with an number of Dice divisible by 3?
14 dice? Perhaps 10-4.
10 dice? Perhaps 7-3
5 dice? Perhaps 4-1.

You're not forced to use exactly 2:1 odds in a sim block/strike, just that you can't exceed that ratio. So with 10 dice to play with, I can assign them 6:3, 5:4, 5:5, etc, however I want, but I can't assign them 8:2 or 7:3 because that's more than 2:1. None of your examples above are valid because they break that rule, but you could do them like this:

14 dice? Perhaps 9:5
10 dice? Perhaps 6:4
5 Dice? Perhaps 3:2

As Lance also said, have a play with the combat simulator, it'll show you how a lot of combat options work, I worked really hard to make it very rules-accurate (except armor, admittedly).

Regards,
Brian.

[Prince of Thieves]

OK, I'm naked. What now?

Wow this forum is friendly... :)

Seriously though thank you both for the answers, that clears up alot... especially on the Sim-Block/Strike CP dice spending.

[Brian Leybourne]

OK, I'm naked. What now?

Wow this forum is friendly... :)

You wouldn't think it was that friendly if you had actually seen me naked :-)

Brian.

[Overdrive]

Attack/Attack always ends the round and calls for a dice throw/initiative again.

I believe this isn't stated in the rules, but is a feature of your combat sim :) I'd prefer different approach, though. Why can't you push your attack after a successful (for you) red/red? The enemy is probably just so much hurt that _this_ would be the perfect time for you to finish him off. Especially appropriate for the plate-armored guy who always attacks even if he doesn't have the initiative.

My solution has been to just proceed next exchange with both parties throwing initiative. After all, they "should not" be apart after such bloodshed.

[Salamander]

OK, I'm naked. What now?

Oh, you didn't mean that kind of "bare"...?

...

That's a mental image I could have lived without...

[Brian Leybourne]

Attack/Attack always ends the round and calls for a dice throw/initiative again.

I believe this isn't stated in the rules, but is a feature of your combat sim :) I'd prefer different approach, though. Why can't you push your attack after a successful (for you) red/red? The enemy is probably just so much hurt that _this_ would be the perfect time for you to finish him off. Especially appropriate for the plate-armored guy who always attacks even if he doesn't have the initiative.

If the attackers are falling back to the extent where they each get to choose if they attack or defend (i.e. throwing initiative) rather than just continuing the clash-clash of frenetic melee, then it's CP refresh time. The combat sim does it that way for a reason.

Brian.

[Lance D. Allen]

I, personally, only call for initiative again if there wasn't a clear winner in the red-red engagement. If there was a clear winner, they take the initiative and continue as normal.

[Jake Norwood]

I agree.

Jake

[Brian Leybourne]

I, personally, only call for initiative again if there wasn't a clear winner in the red-red engagement. If there was a clear winner, they take the initiative and continue as normal.

Define "clear winner"

I'll buy it if one guy hits and the other misses. But what about where both hit, one with a margin of 4 and one with a margin of 3. Is a difference of 1 a clear winner? What about a difference of 2? etc.

Messy, says I.

Brian.

[Lance D. Allen]

The case you mentioned would be one.. As for clear winner, if one person were uninjured due to TO and armor, that's another case of clear winner. Basically, "clear winner" is whoever is still able to function after the engagement. If both are able to function, I do a reflex roll to determine who's got initiative. I dislike the idea of two still-capable warriors being forced to break apart if they're still both going for the gusto.

[Overdrive]

Another case is when one combatant has CP dice left, and the other doesn't. This might happen in a middle of a bout when the defender chooses 'attack' defence, tries to buy initiative and so on. If it's the first exchange the offender probably doesn't use all his dice, so..

This might be more complicated than I thought. :)