Genre Simulation

[Jack Spencer Jr]

Well, I agree it can appear in all modes, but I'd say it is a bit more than Color - it tells you about the Charcater (an actor), the Situation (,aking wuxia films), and etc.

It also effects the system since it's part of the tools for making things happen. I still think it's mostly color to make is a game about playing movie characters instead of playing character much like characters seen in a movie. Coping the medium in another medium, sort of like the book pages in Winnie the Pooh. The cinematic version of reading a book.

[M. J. Young]

Maybe I'm wrong, the the distinction I'm hearing is something like this:

[*]Emulation: You're a superhero, like they have in comic books, but it's different because this isn't a comic book but a role playing game. Think of the difference between the Superman comics and the television shows, cartoons, and movies, and you're on the right track.[*]Genre Simulation: You're a superhero in a comic book, and everything about the way this game is played should feel like you're in the comic book.[/list:u]
Is that right?

--M. J. Young

[Wormwood]

M.J.

Well, I'd say, more than just feel like a comic book, but also should appear as such to the outside or retro-active observer. Essentially the play entire should match that of a comic book, but the internal feel won't be like that of reading a comic book, per say, since it's more a conglomeration of reading, writting, and perhaps even drawing one (on some level). The point is adherence to the comic book as media, and not as simply subject matter.

The concern I have is that this seems less biased towards the mode of simulationism. I'm still uncertain in what sense it pushes towards other modes, but I suspect that it frequently can do so. (By pushing I mean lends itself as a design technique to support certain modes more directly.)

But yes, you've pretty much hit the nail on the head, at least for overt forms of genre simulation. Covert forms seem to be difficult for most people to accept, but that seems to be a general trend here. The idea of a covert design principle is in some ways contrary to the ideals of the Forge, although I feel it is a valid enough approach to merit discussion. However, as a concept it is unnecessary to discuss the potential bias of genre simulation.

Thank you for your time,

  -Mendel S.

[Jack Spencer Jr]

I'll tell you, Mendel, I keep looking at this, which I guess guess could be broken down to media simulation or emulation (to keep it straight with Simulationism), and I have the question of: to what end? I personally feel it's mostly a matter of coloring the proceedings because what does separate super heroes and comic book super heroes? That's cool, though. Hell if you need my worthless approval, right?

does Genre Simulation [media emulation?] lie as a Narrativist Creative Agenda, or a Simulationist one.

Well, my thoughts are this: media emulation is Color IMO. If the Exploration of it is prioritized in play, then it indicates Simulationism. If it's just there to, well, color the proceedings, then it does not indicate any particular mode based on this.

[Wormwood]

Jack,

It seems to me that you're begging the question on this. You first state that there is no difference between genre emulation and genre simulation (media emulation, I don't like this term as much, because it implies a lack of emulation of the genre.) Or at least none that you percieve. Then you come to the conclusion that that means that a prioritized genre simulation is, like genre emulation, simply Simulationism.

I have direct experience that the later conclusion is false, which indicates to me that the assumption, that genre emulation = genre simulation, is faulty. I've written several genre simulation games, I've observed the play, and I see characteristically that when genre simulation is prioritized the result is not always Simulationism, at times it is characteristicly Narrativist, sometimes it even seems Gamist. Unfortunately, I have not been able to gather enough evidence of this effect.

For example, in the genre simulation of a super hero comic, one of the elements is the fact that characters are highly interpretive, lacking many of the strong point-wise descriptions in most superhero games. As such, the interpretations change organically over time, as they do in the comic book media. Also those interpretations change depending on the current "plot arc". This seems to me to be a very solid Narrativist element, namely enhancing the thematically appropriate influence of a character on the game play. I see this as gaining elements of creative agenda from the media, by emulating that media, as it is used, not simply as details about the media.

Thank you for your time,

  -Mendel S.

[Jack Spencer Jr]

Well, at first I wasn't quite sure what you were getting at with genre simulation. I think the terms are getting a bit much here. What you call genre simulation seems to contain emulation of both the genre (e.g. super heroes) and media (e.g. comic books).  The point of the distinction is that the genre is not the medium. see Love & Rockets, EC horror comics, etc. But, upon reflection, by saying genre simulation you are combining genre and media emulation at the same time, preferably a genre in a commonly found medium so that there is something to emulate.

Does this make sense?

[Wormwood]

Jack,

That is essentially correct, the one major clarification I would make is that the genre emulated is not the original genre (which ever that may be), but rather as it is viewed through the lens of the media emulated. This is a fairly critical part of the simulation, but also manages to be fairly subtle. It also seems to be the point where the non-simulationist support derives.

Thank you for your time,

  -Mendel S.