More Nar/Sim Superheroes

[AnyaTheBlue]

This is another post on the general topic of http://www.indie-rpgs.com/viewtopic.php?t=6788&highlight=">this thread over here from last June, where I was mumbling about an unnamed Nar/Sim superhero game.

I still don't have a name (Current front-runner: "Great Powers", runner up: "Neverending Battle"), but I do have some more slightly concrete thoughts.

Note I said slightly.  This is still very unformed.

Specific inspirations for what follows are Paladin, Sorcerer, Charnel Gods, Over the Edge, Pendragon, The Reign of Steel, Donjon, and pretty much all of the superhero RPGs I've been exposed to (V&V, Champions, DC Heroes/MEGS, Marvel Super Heroes (old TSR), and even (god help it) Super Squadron, and probably others that I'm forgetting).

Now that that's out of the way, first things first.

I still haven't decided on a resolution mechanic, nor on exactly how I'm going to handle 'resource allocation', but I do have some more concrete ideas about focus.  One specific inspiration is a thread I read either here or over on RPG.net where someone commented that, if he were designing a superhero game, that he'd include rules for costume design.

That helped gel my own thoughts about secret identities.  So, then, what do I want to focus on, and how.

I want the superheroes themselves to be the main characters, obviously, but I also want specific mechanics that relate to their motivations and their relationships both to their foes and allies, but also their supporting casts.

Many superhero RPGs have some amount of lip service here but, much like 'costume design rules', it's generally a side bit to the main focus of beating people up(ie, disads like Dependent NPC in Champions).

So, I want none of that.  I want the primary mechanics to involve the character's public and secret identities, and the relationships those identities have with other people and with each other, if any.  Obviously, some heroes don't have secret IDs (ie, the Fantastic Four), which opens up an entirely different arena of play.

I don't want this to be the primary focus of the game -- I still want cosmic adventure and combat, but I do want the above concerns to end up being about half the game.  I'd like a 50/50 split between adventuring, and handling interpersonal social interactions.  This is probably the primary design goal.

Probably the second-most important design goal is simplicity.  I can sit down and knock out a description of a superhero in about ten minutes.  I want character creation to be nearly that fast.

Third, I'm going for a nar/sim hybrid, I think, but I'm going to have sim/gamist elements related to the secret ID stuff I'm rambling about, above.

Okay, so that's my goals.  How am I going to acheive this?

Here's a couple illustrative sample characters, sans numbers.  I want to use a mixture of numbers and descriptors (much like Sorcerer), so these examples are going to be descriptor heavy because I haven't worked out how the numbers are going to go yet.

Example #1

Code Select Expand


Clark Kent, Mild-mannered Reporter, raised on a farm
o Identity: Secret (Superman)
o Motivation: Empathy
o Modus Operandi: Hero of the People
o Demeanor: Trustworthy
o Power Sources:
  o Alien (Homeworld: Krypton)
    o Drawbacks
       - Dependent: Light of a Yellow Sun
       - Vulnerable: Kryptonite
       - Vulnerable: Light of a Red Sun
    o Qualities:
       + Strong
       + Fast
       + Healthy
       + Quick Healing
       + X-Ray Vision
       + Heat Vision
       + Telescopic Vision
       + Microscopic Vision
       + Flight
       + Immune to Hostile Environments
       + Immune to poisons
       + Invulnerable
  o Secret HQ: Fortress of Solitude
  o Haven: Kent farmstead, Smallville, Kansas
  o Gadgets: Kryptonian relics
o Relationships
  o Allies:
     o Trusted Counselor: Johnathan "Pa" Kent
     o Trusted Counselor: Martha "Ma" Kent
     o Trusted Ally: Kara Zor-El (Supergirl)
     o Alluring Boon Companion: Lois Lane
     o Boon Companion: Jimmy Olsen, Superman's Pal
     o Employing Organization: Daily Planet Newspaper
     o Supervisor: Perry White
     o Specialist Ally: Dr. Emil Hamliton (Scientist)
     o Trusted Alluring Childhood Friend: Lana Lang
     o Childhood Friend: Pete Ross
     o Law Enforcement Contact: Maggie Sawyer, Metropolis SCU
     o Law Enforcement Contact: Dick "Terrible" Turpin, MSCU
     o Ally Group: Justice League
     o Ally Group: Legion of Superheroes
     o Trusted Uneasy Ally: Bruce Wayne (Batman)
  o Enemies:
     o Mastermind Nemesis: Lex Luthor
     o Nemesis: Brainiac
     o Nemesis: Ultra-Humanite
     o Nemesis: General Zod
     o Foe: Metallo
     o Foe: Toymaker
     o Foe: Solomon Grundy
     o Organizational Adversary: Intergang
     o Misunderstood Misanthrope: Bizarro
     o Misunderstood Misanthrope: Giganto
     o Comic Relief Pest: Mr. Mxyzptlk


Example #2:

Code Select Expand


Bruce Wayne, Wealthy Industrialist, Playboy
o Identity: Secret (Batman)
o Motivation: Tragic Loss
o Modus Operandi: Mystery Man
o Demeanor: Intimidating
o Power Sources:
  o Vast Wealth
  o Gadgets
    + Utility Belt
    + Weapons
    + Vehicles
  o Training
    + Forensics/Detective Work
    + Martial Arts
    + Weight Lifting
    + Acrobatics
  o Secret HQ: Batcave
  o Haven: Stately Wayne Manor
o Relationships
  o Allies:
     o Trusted Counselor: Alfred Pennyworth
     o Trusted Ally: Barbara Gordon (Batgirl)
     o Trusted Sidekick: Dick Grayson (Robin)
     o Law Enforcement Contact: Commisioner James Gordon
     o Ally Group: Justice League
     o Trusted Uneasy Ally: Clark Kent (Superman)
     o Ally Employees: Wayne Industries
  o Enemies:
     o Mastermind Nemesis: Rhas Al-Ghul
     o Nemesis: The Joker
     o Alluring Adversary: Catwoman
     o Foe: The Penguin
     o Foe: The Riddler
     o Foe: The Scarecrow
     o Foe: Clayface
     o Foe: Poison Ivy
     o Foe: Mr. Freeze
     o Comic Relief Pest: Batmite


Now, most of these things would have a numerical rating, at least the power sources, the ally relationships, and the ID, Motiivation, and other descriptors up at the top.

I'd also like to toy with the idea of some sort of resource that gets depleted (a la humanity) if you don't maintain your relationships.  I also think relationships ought to have split values -- secret vs. public IDs.  Any relationship with 'trusted' in front is assumed to know your secret ID, and would therefore only have one rating.

Instead of each power having a rating, I'd say each power source has a rating, and the power source gets one descriptor (or whatever) per point of rating.  Drawbacks add descriptors on a one-for-one basis.  So, a power source at level 6 with 2 drawbacks would get 8 descriptors.  You use descriptors to justify actions.  "I'll use my 'fast' to dodge the bullet", "I'll use my invulnerability to deflect the ray", or whatever.  Any descriptor can be used for any purpose that makes sense to the group at large.

I think there ought to be a way to temporarily add a descriptor to a power source dynamically in play by using some other resource, allowing for novel or previously unknown abilities to surface.  These could be purchased permanently through character generation, but until then would require in-play expenditure and possibly even group voting/veto power (sort of like in Baron Munchausen, when any other player can challenge a 'fact').

There should also be some way of pumping your abilities, such as with a call-on trait (Donjon, I believe) or rolling your successes as bonuses to another action (a la Sorcerer).

I'm toying with you buying your Power Sources with a pool of points which match the number of relationships you have.  So, if you have ten relationships (either enemy or ally) all at strength two, then you get twenty points worth of power sources, or whatever.  Basically, each point of power source is +1, each value in your core descriptors (ie, motiviation, or whatever) is +1, each point of relationship is -1, each power-source drawback is -1.

Other thoughts:  Any uncontested action by a superhero is successful if the descriptor-narration makes sense.

All non-humans and mundane actions are automatically trumped by superbeings -- people with guns fail if opposed by a superbeing with a descriptor who can justify applying that super-descriptor to avoiding damage.  You can equip mundanes (agents, police, etc) with super-technology, which makes them slightly more effective, but still mostly mooks.

Another thought I had involved the enemy relationships -- You ought to be able to take a new 'foe' relationship with someone after you encounter them once or twice, and get some sort of bonus when interacting with them because you 'get to know them'.  Of course, they would get a similar bonus.  In addition, I'm thinking that things like Boon Companion, Sidekick, Ally, Nemesis, Alluring, etc. would have specialized meanings indicating the nature of the in-game role of the character.

Also, defense comes in two different forms: "take a licking, keep on ticking" -- Invulnerability or Resistance or Armor -- and "Avoidance" -- Dodging out of the way.  If you resist something by letting it hit you and being resistant, you still take damage.  You just aren't taken down right away.  Avoiding is avoiding, however.  Note that you can try to avoid and fail, then resist with an invulnerability or resistance.  If you don't have an appropriate way of doing either, you go down.

Kind of binary combat.  If two super strong guys start wailing on each other, they keep taking damage, but don't go down until they run out of 'hit points' or whatever.  If they wail on someone who keeps avoiding them, they aren't doing any damage to their opponent.  If they wail on someone with no defense who can't avoid or resist, that target goes down automatically and instantly.

Unless you can defend with a power, you go down when attacked with a superpower.

Anyway, this is all pretty ill-formed, still, but slowly coming itno focus, at least for me.  I welcome any comments, critiques, or questions.  Thanks!

[Ron Edwards]

Hi Anya,

This is way looking like HeroQuest. Check out those rules as soon as possible; they'll either supplant what you're after, or provide you with necessary focus/contrast for nailing what you're after.

I still want cosmic adventure and combat, but I do want the above concerns to end up being about half the game. I'd like a 50/50 split between adventuring, and handling interpersonal social interactions.

Hey, I grew up reading The Avengers too! Could you believe it when Mantis was making a play for the Vision, and the Scarlet Witch was right there? And the Vision, you know, being an android and all, is still getting all of his emotions-issues all worked out, so he's vulnerable to this sort of thing. And the Swordsman just gets madder and madder, 'cause Mantis is supposed to be his girlfriend? Man!

The scary thing is that the above paragraph isn't parody after all. It still gives me chills, because I knew that the Zodiac were gunning for the Avengers the whole time, and the more the group was torn apart by this time, the more unprepared they were going to be ...

Best,
Ron

[AnyaTheBlue]

This is way looking like HeroQuest. Check out those rules as soon as possible; they'll either supplant what you're after, or provide you with necessary focus/contrast for nailing what you're after.

I actually have HQ (only person to pick the Vinga rune!  Yay, mine's unique!), although I haven't made my way all the way through it.  I've had Hero Wars for years -- I could tell there was a clever Robin Laws rules set in there somewhere, but I never had the fortitude to wade through it and pull it out by it's guts.

I was fairly sure I'd be able to get HQ to do all this (and I just knew you were going to bring it up, too), but I wanted to get my thoughts out of my brain and into electrons somewhere, preferably where others can kibitz about my approach.

I'm trying to settle on what bits are important to me before I dive into HQ and figure out how to map them onto the HQ rules (or whatever mishmash of HQ and Other Stuff I can Steal from Elsewhere).

I suspect I could actually do this with Godlike/Wild Talents fairly easily, too, but while ORE seems pretty cool, it's got a bit too much in the way of "power vs. power" crunch for what I think I want to bring into the center of the game.

Part of my problem, actually, is that while I've been a gamer for a looong time, and I have an inordinately large library, I have had (or have made) little or no effort to game much in the past few years.  I have a number of excellent systems that I'm enamored of, but I have little or no opportunity to try them out, and there's nothing like actually gaming to get the hang of a new system.

So a lot of this is an academic excercise for me, at least at this point.  I feel like I need practical input from people who are actually 'on the ground', so to speak, with these rules and systems.

I still want cosmic adventure and combat, but I do want the above concerns to end up being about half the game. I'd like a 50/50 split between adventuring, and handling interpersonal social interactions.

Hey, I grew up reading The Avengers too! Could you believe it when Mantis was making a play for the Vision, and the Scarlet Witch was right there? And the Vision, you know, being an android and all, is still getting all of his emotions-issues all worked out, so he's vulnerable to this sort of thing. And the Swordsman just gets madder and madder, 'cause Mantis is supposed to be his girlfriend? Man!

Say it isn't so!  Ron, don't tell me you were a...gasp...Marvel Zombie?  Oh, how my illusions have been shattered!

Actually, for whatever reason, I never got into the Avengers.  I did, however, LOOOOVE-with-a-capital-OOOVE the Fantastic Four, Alpha Flight, and the X-Men (back when they only had one comic book and their stories seemed to actually take place in the Marvel Universe, instead of some weird parallel dimension where everybody loves Thor and Iron Man, but hates Cyclops and all mutants) as well as Zot!, Mage, the Elementals, and other more off-to-the-side stuff.

Really, though, my current take on superheroes is mostly Alan Moore's fault.  Miracleman, Watchmen, Supreme, followed by most of the ABC line, has just spoiled me.  And now he's retiring!  Waaaah!  I mean, Astro City, Jack Staff, Planetary, Hellboy, and Powers are good and all, but come on -- they haven't yet made it to Alan Moore status for me.

Sigh.

Well, at least there's still Paul Dini and Bruce Timm, as well as Smallville.  I haven't seen most of the episodes (don't have cable), but I'm quite enjoying what I've seen of the current Justice League.

I think the Superhero comic books I've liked the best over the last 20 years or so (I still read the silly things, every week -- thank heavens for disposable income) have had this sort of semi-serious Sci-Fi-ish approach, trying to simultaneously humanize the characters while at the same time illustrate their isolation and fundamental difference from the people around them.

Actually, now that I think about it, it's got a lot of parallels to anybody who is 'living a lie' -- whether they're in the closet, having an affair, abusing alcohol on the side, or even sort of being abused.  I don't really want to focus on that sort of stuff directly, but I think there's a parallel in here somewhere.

Anyway, it's this kind of vibe I'm trying to strike.  One of the important things I want to twist is to make the "superhero identity" the default 'alter ego'.  Most Superhero games take the default "My character is named Tigerman, and I disguise myself as Leo Veldt" sort of approach (of course, so do most comic books), but I'd rather have the players make up Leo Veldt, who has Tiger powers, and then creates the alternate identity of Tigerman.  I mean, it's okay to mentally make up the superhero identity first, but ultimately that's the easy part of creating a superhero.  I want to encourage the players to focus and identify with the person inside the genre-conventions, who is using the genre-conventions to his advantage in order to help people.

Okay, I have to get to sleep now, because I'm rambling on about superheroes incoherently.

Thanks for the HQ plug, Ron!  I'll try and bury my nose in it this week!

[Jonathan Walton]

Hey Anya,

This isn't quite what you're looking for, but somewhat related.  I'm working on a "taking the OGL to task" mod for Mutants & Masterminds called Argonauts, that, while still basically d20, uses a narrativist damage system that I've wondered about using in other superhero-style games.

Argonauts is about epic Greek superheroes from myth and legend, all of whom are doomed to die a tragic death.  So, instead of taking damage, you mark off boxes that move them closer and closer to their Fate.  At certain points along the path, there are omens and realizations of tragic flaws, each of which occurs "on schedule" as the character progresses towards doom.  However, there are also Hubris mechanics which allow the character to avoid their Fate but risk facing the wrath of the gods.

Anyway, I was thinking about the possibilties of using something similar in a non-tragedy-based game.  Shreyas was trying something a bit like it in his classical Indian Vedic superheroes game (look that one up, if you get a chance), but I just like the fact that you could have damage trigger emotional reactions in a character or narrative points in the story.  You know, like the part when Wolverine gets beat the crap out of and ends up in the Hellfire Club basement, pissed as all hell, ready to take on the world? Or when Spider-Man pushes through the pain and picks up a car to throw at someone?

Just a thought.