New derived attribute: True Faith?

[MonkeyWrench]

Here in a few weeks I'm going to be running a RoS game using Planescape as a setting. I want to include priestly "magic" seeing as how it feels right for the setting. I was thinking that a good way to do this would be to create a new derived attribute - True Faith. (If anyone can help me come up with a better name I'd appreciate it, this one is sorta a cop out).

True Faith is a combonation of WP+Faith/2. My reasoning is this. Willpower just feels right for it. Through the force of your will you are petitioning your god/goddess/whatever to intervene on your behalf. Faith is pretty self expalinatory even though in the course of play Faith will rise and fall due to roleplaying. It makes sense to me.

1) Having created a new derived attribute what should it be rolled against? I considered Theology, but that doesn't seem right. Should it just be against arbitrary numbers based on how big of a favor the PC prays for?
Ex #1: A war priests asks for strength in the upcoming battle lets say TN: 4-5?
Ex #2: A priest of a cruel tyrant god wishes to miraculously heal a companion....TN 8-9?

2) Should there be a rule to govern the effects of the prayer, or should it be left up to individual Seneschal interpretation? In Ex #1 I might add some dice to the priest's combat pool or perhaps temporarily increase ST, TO, AG, Wit, or EN by 1. In Ex #2 the companion wishing to be healed might only be healed an insignificant amount, or perhaps the healing isn't automatic, or it still leaves a huge ugly scar or discoloration in the shape of the god's symbol.

Anyway this is something I'd like to have ironed out before I actually begin to use the setting. As usual any input is appreciated.

[BirdMan]

I'd vary the target number based on how the desired outcome deviates from the deity's purpose/mission.  Or, you could do that thing where deviation from the deity's purpose/mission removes dice from the True Faith pool.

Thus, under option one, if the priest of a war god wants a holy blessing on his or his companion's weapon, then the target number might be 4/5 (with the number of successes providing a temporary die pool that the recipient could add to the combat pool).  The same priest might find a healing miracle considerably harder to have granted, with target numbers in the 9 to 13 range.  In option two, the target number might remain the same (I'd make it 7 or 8), Pat the warpriest might have his True Faith pool reduced by, say, 4 die for the healing miracle.

I've got a follow-up question for you.  How often are you planning to have your holy characters' True Faith pool refresh?

[MonkeyWrench]

How often are you planning to have your holy characters' True Faith pool refresh?

It's not something that would need to be refreshed. I'm using it differently than Spiritual Attributes.

Depending upon their Faith SA it might be different every time they use it. Of course the player in question could always try to keep their Faith SA at the same value they would be missing out on the points for advancement.

So to makes things a little clearer here's what I propose....
True Faith = WP+Faith(the current max rating)/2
Lets say that a players Faith SA is at 3, but during the course of play they have used 2 points from it to add dice to some of their rolls. Now they want to pray for something. Their TF score would still be based off of their Faith 3 SA. Clear as mud? Oh and yes I was going to make it possible to use Faith to add dice to a True Faith roll.

hmmm....now I'm getting myself confused.

[Swordmagnet]

Why have a new derived stat at all? Just use Faith in a different way. Every time the priest PC commits an act in accordance with his god's theology he gains a point in Faith. Use down-time to boost his pool.

The target number depends on how faithfull the request/plea is. i.e: the priest of a war god wants to enhance blood loss of all wounds inflicted=4.(Be devious here; both NPS's and PC's blood loss increases) The priest wants to stop blood loss of his companions=10.

I believe the effects should be subtle but effective. TN modifiers or CP modifiers but no "spell" effects. Keep priests mysterious and a little strange. "OK, he kneels down and prays. +2 to everyone's CP's"

For priests you can completely ignore the sorcerery rules. In the Weyrth background it is stated that miracles and "priestly magic" do not exist.

Of course all of the above asumes that your religions are well defined and explained...

[MonkeyWrench]

I had thought about just using Faith, but in the end I figured it'd be best for me and my players to just come up with something a little different.
Here's what I was thinking for TNs
(all examples use a priest of a god of healing)
TN 3 = a simple favor that acts in accordance with the god/goddess' portfolio (ask for a 1 point decrease in first aid for 1 roll)
TN 4 = a simple favor that lasts a little longer or a more complex favor that lasts a short time, again in accordance with the portfolio (asks for an even greater decrease or asks for the decrease to last for a longer time)
TN 5 = a fairly complex favor that acts in accordance with the portfolio (asks for automatic successes on a first aid/surgery roll for an extended period of time)
TN = 6 a small miracle, something that could be explained away, that acts in accordance with the porfolio (automatic healing of a level 1 or 2 wound)
TN = 7 a more complex miracle, something that could never happen on it's own, or an act that is somewhat out of accordance with the portfolio (automatic healing of a level 3 or 4 wound or asking for assistance in a non healing fashion ex: help crossing a river, or luck in a financial endeavor, etc)
TN = 8 a true miracle, obviously the gods had a hand in this, or an act that goes against the portfolio (the automatic healing of a non-fatal level 5 wound, no bringing the dead back, or luck and skill in combat, etc)
TN 9-13? = acts that in no way are related to the god's portfolio or require direct divine intervention (asking to stop an epidemic)

For mirales (TN 6+) the permenant expenditure of an SA seems appropriate. It should also be noted that prayers that aren't directly related to the portfolio should have small benefits no matter what the TN, so in the above examples if the priest were to ask for ehlp in battle (obviously something that doesn't promote healing) the benefit would be small.

I believe the effects should be subtle but effective

Keep priests mysterious and a little strange.

For priests you can completely ignore the sorcerery rules.

I agree with all of these. I also believe that the same prayer should never give the same results every time. For the most part I will judge each one on how well the priest is being roleplayed and the True Faith score. As for there being no "priestly magic" well that is Weyrth and this is Planescape and I feel that preists who are so close to their gods/goddesses should be able to channel some of that power.

[Dan Sellars]

This looks quite interesting.

I don't know Planescape at all so I don't know what passes for "normal" but my gut instinct is that the TNs seem a bit low for the effect generated.

TN = 6 a small miracle, something that could be explained away, that acts in accordance with the porfolio (automatic healing of a level 1 or 2 wound)
TN = 7 a more complex miracle, something that could never happen on it's own, or an act that is somewhat out of accordance with the portfolio (automatic healing of a level 3 or 4 wound or asking for assistance in a non healing fashion ex: help crossing a river, or luck in a financial endeavor, etc)
TN = 8 a true miracle, obviously the gods had a hand in this, or an act that goes against the portfolio (the automatic healing of a non-fatal level 5 wound, no bringing the dead back, or luck and skill in combat, etc)

Assuming a TF of around 4 and only needing to get a single success (is this reasonable?) priests are going to be popping off small miricles all the time.  Even true miricles are going to be quite easy.  Or don't you see it happening like this?  Or is this the desired effect?

just my 2p ;-)

Dan.

[MonkeyWrench]

I don't know Planescape at all so I don't know what passes for "normal" but my gut instinct is that the TNs seem a bit low for the effect generated.

Yeah they do seem a bit low, but this is why I'm going to require the spending of SAs along with the True Faith. 1 SA for TN 6, 2 SAs for TN7, and 3 SAs for TN 8. And of course anything higher than that would require more SAs to be spent.

These are also just meant to be rough guildlines. Lets say that healer priest's temple is being attached and is in danger of being destroyed then of course I would lower the TN if said healing priest asked for skill in battle, but I may have him need to attone for whatever blood was spilled.

Whenever I use it in my game I know that the player in question won't abuse it and will only use their True Faith when the story calls for it. I would say that if you wanted to use it then you would have to carefully monitor how the player roleplays their priest. True Faith should only be present amongst a small number of priests (race priority b or c maybe?) and even then it wouldn't be used on a daily basis. If you don't feel that a particular prayer should work then it doesn't. It's not like sorcery, but I do see it as more powerful in some aspects.

[Rico]

THis is a good idea and I think I might adopt it or something like it (If you don't mind of course) But I would just raise the TNs a little higher. In my group we get a lot of high numbers. For example: last scenario we had no failures or fumbles, a couple numbers reaching 20-30, and the high roll of 46 (Very lucky actually but you get my point)

[MonkeyWrench]

THis is a good idea and I think I might adopt it or something like it (If you don't mind of course

Go ahead and use it all you want!
Make whatever changes you want as well. Just be sure to let me know how it works out for you.