[Burning Wheel] Troll Winter - longish

[Kaare_Berg]

They are beginning to get it.

Finally they are beginning to get it.

But I am getting ahead of myself.

My group had our second BW session last night and though my carefully constructed adventure was throw out the window within the first hour of play enough seeds got planted for futher mayhem.

A brief recap

Three heroes, Sir Tengel, Calem and Liam, went to investigate an ambush and followed a troll into the mountains. The events therein are described in this thread:http://www.indie-rpgs.com/viewtopic.php?t=8854
I bluebooked the ending of this tale which went like this: They snuck into enemy camp, rescued a young knight and escaped by magically torching the camp. Pursued by the brigands from the camp they escaped in a blizzard. end story.

The Cast

Sir Tengel - a pious knight seeking redemtion for crimes unspeified.
Calem - a mage seeking a lost art of magic
Liam - a rootless ranger who has begun to tie to the two above
Gorin -*new* a dwarf seeking to rekindle the Eight Virtues in his people
Sir Locklear - *new* a knight who wishes to join a dying Knightly Order.

The Game

Our story begun with all the characters enjoying a good meal, and some fine dwarven Nog in hall of sir Tengel, who was a popular man  after the above rescue of Sir Yolains, youngest brother of earl Stennarch, lord of Shiring Vale. (this being why the two new PCs was visiting Tengel).

The stabel boy Jonah enters saying that there must be something in the stable since the horses were all agitated when he went out to check (Jonah is one of three household NPCs from sir Tengels manor). Certain that this is no more than a Badger the five go to investigate preparing to flush the animal out the stable.
this is where my fun began, the players expected more trouble but purposly adopted the idea of a badger seeking shelter because their characters had no reason to expect trouble. Which isn't that special, but it was the manner in which they bought the idea that made me all fuzzy and warm inside.
Inside the stable they found the small, big nosed troll they had shared a meal with last session. Obivously cold and afraid it had brought Tengel's horse back since he had to abandoned it last time. After having given the troll, Kronsworth, some warm food and a place by the fire he told how a great Icetroll, Kaldbane (same troll as last session) had led a band of villains past his cabin and that he had barely escaped with his life. Alarmed the heroes summoned a few good men and sent word to nearby Lady's house that there were trolls loose.
Here it began: Tengel's player said I'll send for four villagers that I know are good men. Sure I said, and he asked me their names. I sighed and begun to rack my brain for names, when he asked if he could make them up. I smiled.
Som Calem went out to bring Phil, Carl, Thomas and that Bowens fella abck to the Hall. Also a man-at-arms from the Lady's houshold showed up, Simon, and reported she was safe spending time at the earl's court. A watchrotation was set and the night passed and all slept poorly because of both the troll and Gorins Thunderous snoring.
The next day came and here my structure begun to unravel. Our heroes, after a lengthy discussion chose to backtrack Kronsworths trail and scout out the invading force. Afraid of the troll it was with a heavy heart they set out into the snow. No word was sent out.
Plodding through the snow for ours both the ranger and the mage shone; Liam by rolling great deal more sucesses than he needed to follow the trail while scouting ahead on snow shoes and Calem by summoning a spirit servant to clear a path for the party. They made good speed into the hills.
Half a days march in they found the tracks of the Trollparty. Liam determined the size of the party to bee about twenty, with mixed humans and Grey-trolls. Worried because the grey-trolls wore armour (which they don't usually do), they chose to follow the tracks. An hou later discovering their campsite. Now they learned more about their enemy and doubt started to seep in.
Yet they pressed on.
As the day wore on they found that a small band of humans had broken off and their trail went straight for the village of Imber, Tengel's Home. They followed and Thanks to Liam's skill they ambushed these six brigands.
The following combat was brief and bloody. Due to some confusion about movement rates and so on the martially inclined characters struggled to reach the stunned brigands before they recovered their wits. And mostly thanks to Liam's great shooting there where precious few left when they did. One tried to fight but a spell from Calem touched his soul, draining some of it causing him to panic, run and fall. The final one bravely fought a snow covered dwarf and a cautious knight before he was disarmed, literally.
When the chaos subsided and my players took stock Tengel's player asked what were their names? And after a blank stare and an expletive, the players made up the names of the dead brigands. By now they were getting the hang of it
They interrogated the surviving brigand , named Taft, and learning something of Kaldbane's plan they brought the poor man back to Imber. Here Sir Tengel took pity on Taft and he was given good treatment. Taft warmed to the characters, though none of Tengel's subjects (Simon the least) trusted him. There were several confrontations between Stengel and Simon who like many a good NCO thought his commander was a complete idiot and tried to make him see differently.
Here my players spent two hours discussing their next plan, and it was only when I ruled that they had wasted half a day they agreed to Tengel's plan. We played loose with time and the sequence of events, often hopping back and forth in time, as the need for them to have information and scenes with the NPCs appeared
Around noon, Taft who had been given a chance to win back his life as a free man, set out to try to seed mutiny among the Brigands, who were all not happy with Kaldbane's leadership. Liam followed him discreetly. The rest mounted and went to Lakeside, a bigger village to get help. Here three knights and ten men-at-arms joined them. Only our heroes previous status as heroes convinced the other knights to belive the words of a troll and a brigand.
Meanwhile the BW mechanic of one roll worked wonders for Liam who learned that the icetroll was planning to raid another village Woodford. Unable to raise the hue and cry in Woodford (having only spotted one sentry Liam didn't dare to cross the ford from which the willage had gotten its name.) The ranger raced back to meet the others.
Joining up with Knights, his news spurred them into mad ride to rescue Woodford.
Catching up the raiding party in the middle of the the ford a brief but bloody battle ensued. Highlights were:
Liam dismounting a horse with a flair worthy of Legolas, Gorin taking a Gimli-dismount.
Tengel and Locklear facing Greytrolls and learning that these were not as easy kills as brigands were.
Kaldbane killing sir Guy (npc) and his horse with one blow.
Liam putting one of Kaldbane's eyes out with an amazing shot, only to face and enraged troll hell-bent on vengance. And Gorin stepping infront of him, bravely awaiting the trollish charge only to watch both Knights charging Kaldbane, only superficially wounding it before the mad troll pushed both from their saddels.
Gorin struck the troll only to watch in horror as his axe bounced of its Stone-skin. The troll set for great strike, and the dwarf prepared to die, when Calem cast his favourite spell, Emperor's Hand and rolling an incredible amount of sucesses,  Draining the troll of all its Forte causing it to pass out.
The battle was over. The victors took stock, and the seven brigands that Taft had convinced to mutiny were taken into custody. Now Tengel has to convince Earl Stennarch not to hang them, but that is for next session.

Problems and lessons learned

I need to give my players more impetus or they will spend forever discussing and overcomplicating things based on assumptions and half-guesses. Any advice here (without being heavy handed)?

Of my planned events, only one came into play (Kronsworth showed up in the stable), I might try to follow Bankuei's idea of Information points nextime (http://www.indie-rpgs.com/viewtopic.php?t=9009), any other input.

My mage is mortally afraid of Tax (drain when casting spells) he always casts patiently (even in combat) and he begins the day by casting Turn Aside Blade both patiently and cautiously so that he becomes untouchable in combat. He only casts this on days he expects trouble though, so he is at times "naked". But if I strike him when he doesn't cast it, because he is vunerable, I am just going to punish him for roleplaying well).
Any ideas, that do not involve permanent 200 league lightningstorms, on how to make him cast his spells quicker? I have some, but always apriciate ideas to steal.

My biggest issue was this though. One of my players rolled really, really well on a arrow shot (yepp its the one that took Kaldbane's eye out). Unfortunatly the rules say that max dammage would only be a light wound on the troll, cheapening the the players investment in the shot (he used Artha, a sort of hero-point mechanism to increase his odds). He wanted to kill the troll outright, but I felt that this would cheapen future troll enemies and the healthy respect/fear my players had for Kaldbane.
I let him take its eye out, but this felt arbitrary. Any ideas on this?

*edited for some spelling errors*

[Luke]

mages and spell casting speed
It sounds like your mage is playing his character reasonably and well. Let him hold to his methods. I have players like this too, and i never have a problem with it. But at some point something is going to happen where he is going to need to cast faster. Put the pressure on him, focus on him for a dramatic scene -- a bandit sneaking into his room in the middle of the night. Or single him out in a combat. You don't have to punish him with a killing blow from a troll axe, but even a brigand's knife should be enough to scare the beejeezus out of him and raise that spell quickly.

Do you play with Abstractions, btw?

Burning Wheel, Arrows, and Damage
Simply put, what kills a man does not kill a troll. I'm terribly sorry if your friend was disappointed with his hunting bow's effect on an Ice Troll, but this is one of the "realities" of the Burning Wheel system: Weapons do not have the potential of "infinite damage." A hunting bow's arrow can only do so much -- the same goes for a dwarf's axe or a man's sword, or a rolling boulder.

Also, heroes are created through deed, not by intent or desire. Often I desire to do really really well, and I do the best I can; this doesn't necessarily mean I have done "enough." This doesn't make me a hero, nor a failure, I've just got to try another way next time.

And in all fairness to the Troll, your friend only spent 1 point of artha, right? Not that huge of an investment. And he was confronting what seems like a major villain, who deserves better than a lousy Superb hunting bow shot to the eye!

I recommend talking to your player and explaining to him that, though his character is good with that bow, there are limits -- such a troll frankly can't be killed from one shot from a hunting bow. Let him take that knowledge into his character. If I were the character, I'd be scared and searching for better weapon!

-L

[Kaare_Berg]

Thanks Abzu,

The mage thing isn't a big deal, I know the player is enjoying himself immensly. And at the moment they have been fighting the lowly shanghaied henchmen of the current bad guy, whose prescence has only been hinted.

And then there are woodtrolls who have no fear dispite their dimmutive stature, and whose whole religon makes them belive that by killing stronger enemies they become stronger. It will scare my player, I know this.

Regardings abstractions we agreed to make this a lost art of magic, which Calem the Mage is seeking. He does not know that this is the magic of the true druids and they do not share freely.

Simply put, what kills a man does not kill a troll. I'm terribly sorry if your friend was disappointed with his hunting bow's effect on an Ice Troll, but this is one of the "realities" of the Burning Wheel system: Weapons do not have the potential of "infinite damage." A hunting bow's arrow can only do so much -- the same goes for a dwarf's axe or a man's sword, or a rolling boulder.

I know this, and it is one of the many things that brought me to BW. It was just that at that moment some effect other than the arrow bouncing off the trolls skull seemed appropiate. I guess I solved it, but at the moment it felt contrived and arbitrary. It does not now. And the player just sent me a mail saing he needs to get a longbow and some different arrows. So he is happy and eager to play again.

[taepoong]

Just a small note on the arrow versus troll. In The Fellowship of the Rings, even Legolas can't bring down a troll with one shot. It took many blows from swords, axes, and arrows to kill it. It just happened that it was Legolas who scored the final Light wound! :o)

[Jeph]

Of course, he does kill an Olephaunt in one shot, which would arguably be much harder to knock off than a piddling troll.

But then again, he's Legoalas. :^)