New Vagaries

[Judd]

I'm enjoying tinkering with the TROS system lately, just prodding here and there.  I tinker because I love.

Tonight I'm thinking about new Vagaries, two sets of four under the headings Elemental and Spirits.  EAch 1, 2, 3 rating is for each Vagary that is under each heading.

Elemental

1- Sculpting element

2 - Creating element

3 - Changing element significantly or dealing with an elmental entity

Earth

Air

Fire

Wind

Spirits

1- Contact spirit

2- Summon Spirit

3- Bind, or Banish Spirit

Dead - Necromantic spirits

Nature - Elemental spirits (redundant?)

Biblical - Angels and Devils and Gods

Object - Magical Artifacts



I have yet to go through the elements but they will have sub-headers, each element  with a .  Air will be the element most closely linked to scrying and each element...not sure what the others will align with.

I'm thinking in this batch to have a ninth Vagarie that was lost, something that bridged the gap between these eight.

Anyway, thoughts for the future, thinking about the Fey game I want to run in a few months, thoughts that have come up while running TROS with Midnight and I'd like the .

[Ingenious]

I too would like to see everyone's thoughts on how to make an 'elementalist' style sorceror with the original TROS rules, elsewise I will have to work with Paka on his idea for it. I am particularly fond of area of effect spells.. and to bring Lord of the Rings into this... that wave of force that Sauron releases at the beginning battle scene of the Fellowship would be part of the air sub-vagary. The blizzard that what's his name unleashed on the fellowship up on that mountain should be a combination of water and air. Afterall, that's just a simple feat of making the air temperature and the dewpoint meet.. that's when there's precipitation(ice, rain, sleet, hail, etc). Vision would be used of course, and the altitude in which a storm is created should directly affect how powerful it is, and possibly what type of precipitation there is. For higher altitudes in the air, it is colder... hence more frozen stuff.
The Earth sub-vagary can consist of such things as tsunami's, earthquakes, volcano's etc. Air furthermore can be used to make hurricanes, tornado's.. etc. Fire is self explanatory I would suppose.. and to make a volcano might need this as well as earth. Water is self explanatory as well.
Now then, the necromancer idea is already covered through the summoning, movement, and banishing vagaries. To summon ghosts, spirits, etc of any type.. to animate the dead, to imprisoning spirits and such into the dead so that you dont have to constantly focus your attention towards animating them... etc etc etc.
However, I still like using sorcery as 'the force' from Star Wars. It's fun. Force-lightning, force-push.. etc etc.(mostly movement based stuff, and spells of one.)

-Ingenious
Edit to note that one would still need vision to find all of those spirits/demons/angels/artifacts. I wouldnt want any sorcerer to see any artifact I was in possession of however...

[Judd]

Different levels of difficulty.

1 - You are a charlatan who knows but a few of the secrets of the world and can bend them to your will.  Spells of this level only touch on this Vagary and the effects will be small but still, quite effective against the unwary.  

2 - Within this Vagary you are a skilled practitioner.  Spells of this level, particulary spells of Many or of Three can be devastatingly powerful.  Only the masters of occult lore and keepers of ancient knowledge know the difference between you and a master of the art.

3 - Within this Vagary you are a master.  The elementals of this Vagary will  know you by name and possibly lordly title, spirits will have heard of your wisdom and/or malice.

Spells that touch on this level of magical power are heinous to behold, killing dynasties, sinking continents, creating miracles and artifacts of legend and making gods wince.

As a result, any 1's rolled when casting a spell with any 3's count as a complication.  The spell, if TN is reached, still goes off, but any 1's mean a complication as dictated by the Seneschal.  Magic is complicated and difficult business and if you don't want spells going awry, find a way to do your chores without massive arcane expenditures of this type.

A 1 could mean a message goes to more than one person than intended, possibly an enemy or maybe just a neutral party who has no idea what to do with this new information.  A summoned creature brings a friend or has something that the caster might find dear, having been told by a seer that they were to be summoned on this day.  It is up to the Senescal's discretion.  

The gods never meant for those dwelling beneath heaven to cast spells of this magnitude.  These are the same energies that created the world and birthed life.  Mortals weren't meant to touch them.  If you cast them anyway, beware, you have put yourself in fate's hands.


I wrote earth, air, fire, wind when I meant to write Earth, Air, Fire, Water.  I need a last Vagary for Fire but it'll come.  I'm happy with this as a starting point and will probably use it in my Fey game, Riddle of Twilight, maybe take it on a test run before then.  

I'll post some example spells, how I see this whole set up working soonish.  Comments are appreciated.

Earth

Growth - Everything fertile comes from the soil.

1) Grow to one in ten times.

2) Grow double its size.

3) Grow five times its size.

Secrets - All lore is buried in the earth eventually.

1) Delve into recent gossip.

2) Delve into historic happenings.

3) Delve into the ancient past, to times when Gods were young and Giants walked the earth naming its creatures.


Air

Messengers - Messages fly on wings in the sky, from ear to ear.

1) Deliver a message within sight.

2) Deliver a message to someone you know but is beyond your sight.

3)  Send a missive to a greater being, a God, or someone you only suspect exists.

Illusions - The air is filled with infinite deceptions from words to sight.

1) Create a small, vague illusion or glamour.

2) Create a man-sized illusion of fair authenticity, sacrificing authenticity for greater size if need be, but no larger than a horse.

3)  Creater a glamour of such astonishing complexity and clarity that even the caster will be surprised by its truth.

Fire

Mind - The spark of thought was kindled at the creation of man.

1) Effect base emotions slightly.

2)  Effect more complicated thoughts.

3)  Weave, unweave and cut strings of the mental tapestry in the skull as if you were their creator.


Water

Life - Within, our life's blood keeps our humors in line and without the seas house the greatest examples of life from krill to the Leviathan.

1)  Ease a wound or stop bleeding or create a sickness where there was only health.

2)  Heal a life threatening wound or create a vile disease.

3)  Re-attach limbs, breath life into the comatose or create a plague that will rock the continent to its foundations.

Destruction - The foolish think fire but the wise know water is the great destroyer, easing into the cracks of the world until it will be unmade through its ceaseless pressure.

1) Rust a sword, crack stone or break flimsy wood.

2)  Destroy a building's foundations, or make a new strong object ancient and weak.

3) Cause destruction on like God's own angels.  Cities, titans and the gates of heaven aren't safe from your rituals.

I too would like to see everyone's thoughts on how to make an 'elementalist' style sorceror with the original TROS rules, elsewise I will have to work with Paka on his idea for it. I am particularly fond of area of effect spells..

Ingenious, if you want to make area effect spells, good luck and god bless.  That isn't the vibe I'm going for but I hear ya.  I still want to keep TROS magic away from D&D's fireballs and chain lightning (although both are definitely possible within this proposed system).

While I feel Spiritual Attributes and the combat system really do capture the feel of fantasy novels, the Sorcery system doesn't capture that feeling for me at the table.

I'm thinking for a game based around the Fey I will want a more elemental approach, something with a more down to earth folk lore vibe and breaking the system down to elements seemed like a way to do that.

[Judd]

I'm looking at this now, after a night of sleep and I realize that I am somewhere between Wheel of Time Aes Sedai Channeling and Ars Magica Forms and Techniques, which is entirely cool.  Those are two casting concepts that I admire.

Fire

Creation - Everything in the world was once stoked in the forge fires of creation.

1)  Create tiny bits out of the aether from the Realm of Forms.

2)  Give birth to fantastical creations, give sparks to new items of power.

3)  You are a Maker.  Infuse artifacts with sparks of power, thought and intellect that could be easily confused with life itself.

[kenjib]

Elemental

1- Sculpting element

2 - Creating element

3 - Changing element significantly or dealing with an elmental entity

Should changing and creating be reversed here?

[Judd]

Elemental

1- Sculpting element

2 - Creating element

3 - Changing element significantly or dealing with an elmental entity

Should changing and creating be reversed here?

Yes, I believe you are right.  I think I hit my stride later.

Thanks!

[Judd]

Spirits

1- Contact spirit

2- Summon Spirit

3- Bind, or Banish Spirit

Dead - Necromantic spirits

1)  Unrestful spirits, friendly ancestors.

2) Ghosts, Zombies, Newly made Vampires

3) Vampire Lords, Undead Sorcerer Liches, Battlefield Tombs

Nature - Elemental spirits

1)  Wood Sprites, Nymphs, Pixies

2) Trees, Satyr, Gentle Winds

3) The Green Man, The Great Hunt, Storm Kings, Ancient Redwoods

Biblical - Angels and Devils and Gods

1) Cherubim, Imps

2) Fiends, Messengers of Gods, Demi-Gods

3) Arch-Angels, Demon Lords and on the right day...Gods


Object - Magical Artifacts

1) A family heirloom, an item that has been cared for and used well

2) An enchanted sword, a Sorcerer's Tome

3)  A god's hammer, a soul-sucking sword

[Krammer]

I had some crazy ideas on this subject that I was working on several months back. I don't remember exactly how I set things up, because my hard drive crashed and I lost everything, so bear with me.
   The way I had it, the wizard would be gifted with only one element, either fire, storm (basically like air), frost (water), life (including both life of people and of nature), dark (this is more focusing on diseases, both physical and mental), and light (don't know what my aims were here, but you can't have dark without light).
   there were nine vagaries for each one, all very similar. As I said earlier,  I don't remember exactly how it went, but I'll give it a shot.
   Amount- this vagary covered the amount of the element, or targets.
   Power/size- pretty self-explanatory
   Form- I actually don't remember if it was form, or something else. darn.
   Control- how much control over the element sorceror has. I figured out some crazy way to have elements go out of control if the sorceror is not careful, or something.
   Animation- How much it may be animated, and stuff.
   Shift- This is a crazy one that I came up with, where the sorceror can actually, for a time, shift into the element they have.
   Unique- Each element had their own unique thing here. Life element could heal, Dark could drain life, and the others I don't remember.
   There were two more vagaries I had come up with, but I don't remember what they were.
    so yeah, that is the crazy magic stuff that I had come up with.  Don't know whether I'll ever finish it, but I want to.

[Judd]

I am just going over the Sorcery, seeing what I'll want to change and what I'll want to keep the same, hopefully, making a tidy Sorcery hand out to give to players who are playing a Sorcerer PC.  I have found that I kept most of the CTN values, with only minor changes.

This was kind of a waste of time, the only thing I really changed was Targets but it will be easily cut and pasted when I make the hand-out for my players.

Alternate CTN Values and Variables

Targets:

0) Incorporeal

1) Inanimate objects

2)  Non-Sentient creatures

3) Sentient Creatures

Range

0) Self

1) Touch

2)  Within View

3)  Unlimited

Volume

0) Incorporeal

1) A Large Bucket, 3 Gallons, 20 Pounds, 1 Yard

2) A Trough, 30 Gallons, 200 Pounds, 10 Yards

3) A Small Moat or Pond, 300 Gallons, 2000 Pounds, 100 Yards

Duration

0) Instant

1) 1 minute

2) 1 Hour

3) 1 Day

[Judd]

?The Lost Vagary?

Legends speak of a ninth Vagary.  Natural Philosophy shows evidence of a gap in the magic of mortals.  Some philosophers theorize this could be a lost Vagary.

Some say that in ancient times the Giants, realizing that man was going to take over the world, took a Vagary, their favorite, from those who would eventually overtake them.  If the Giants still have this ninth Vagary, it is a mystery.  Whether it is in the Spirit or the Elemental hemi-sphere of magic is a hotly debated topic.  Some say it is both.



Changed air to:

Air

Messengers - Messages fly on wings in the sky, from ear to ear.

1) Deliver simple message

2) Complicated missive

3) Send a truly complex concept.

Because otherwise it was too much like the Target CTN.

[Ingenious]

Regarding one of your previous posts, I just wanted to clarify my reasoning to have AOE spells. It is not in order to create fireballs and chain lighting and shit like that... it's to control the weather mostly... like tsunami's, blizzards, hurricanes, earthquakes, etc. Something that can cause mass-destruction if need be, and be said that 'God was punishing us.' kind of logic for the reasoning behind the event...That way people don't necessarily beleive that it was magic that caused it, but the wrath of God himself.

This would be useful to me later on if a run a sorceror during a campaign using the mass-combat junk that is reportedly in TFOB... where I could obliterate whole armies and such... even if I was not currently on the battlefield(hence using vision to see). Also, it might be useful should any sorceror of mine be a 'good' one, and therefore go up against Uglub and the rest of his sorcerors... it could take care of his navy also... etc etc.

-Ingenious

[Judd]

Regarding one of your previous posts, I just wanted to clarify my reasoning to have AOE spells. It is not in order to create fireballs and chain lighting and shit like that  -Ingenious

I am sorry.  We had a very different idea of what an AoE spell was.

In my game the player summoned a storm cloud and asked it for a ride.  He got far more than he bargained for.

[AnyaTheBlue]

I've been thinking about this as well.

I'm trying to stick with Nine vagaries (or multiples of nine) in my various tweakings of the magic system.  A system which has certain similarities is the Eastern Magic in the BRP-Elric! supplement Unknown East, where there are 8 Spheres (things like fire, water, flesh, etc) and 8 Runes (things like Increase, Decrease, and so forth).

I think this could fit into the Vagaries system with a small amount of twiddling.