Simulationists and Gamists enjoying the same session?

[Herr Doktor]

After some discussion our role-playing group came to the realization that according to our own experiences our prefered GNS modes do not match up.  Our group consists of six persons, though only five are actively participating at the moment.  We play using the revised 3rd edition D&D core rules in the Forgotten Realms universe.

Three of the participants, including myself, prefer simulationist play, while the other two have made it known that gamism is their favored manner of play.  The majority was simulationist, or so I thought.  After receiving the background and notes of one of the proclaimed simulationist players I realized that he may have been mistaken and actually be a gamist as well.  After discussing that with another player he informed that he actually talked with him and told him that he thought he might actually be more interested in gamist play.

I am the groups "primary DM".  What that means is that I'm the one with the most experience behind the screen and time to write adventures and scenarios.

Is it going to be possible for me to keep everyone happy under these circumstances?  I'll admit that some of the vocabulary used in the GNS article was a bit more than I was used to, so perhaps I've been going about this the wrong way.

I'm looking at this with the possibility of the minority being able to "give a little," and run a sort of hybrid simulationist/gamist campaign...

Any advice or someone more adept at managing things based on the GNS willing to walk me through this?  I am getting stressed about this at the moment since we are supposed to be starting my campaign tommorow and I designed the initial bit with the simulationist majority that no longer exists in mind.

[Herr Doktor]

I just realized that this probably belongs in the forum called Actual Play, I apologize for misplacing this topic.

[jdagna]

I think Simulationists and Gamists can play quite happily together if each is willing to understand and work with the slight differences.

The way I look at it, the Gamists want a challenge - something they can step on up to, show their expertise and pit their wits and skills against.  The Simulationists generally want to walk around in the game world, experiencing new things, finding out how and why they work and getting into these foreign things.  Since this often involves characters, they'll often make non-optimal (in terms of effectiveness) designs in order to see what happens, and they may be perfectly happy to avoid stepping on up to any challenges that arise.  "Fight a dragon?  Nah, I'd rather find out more about how the prince views his succession rights."  This may annoy the Gamists.  The Gamists, in turn, may annoy the Sim players (or GMs) by seeing everything as a challenge... I often think of Knights of the Dinner Table: "A gazebo?  What's that?  I shoot it with my crossbow!"

So the trick is to provide lots of interesting scenery (scenery because it doesn't demand a challenge response, not because it's unimportant to plot or players), interspersed with significant challenges that give the Gamist players a chance to engage.  If the Gamists will let the Sim guys explore the scenery and the Sim guys will help beat the challenges, everyone can have a pretty good time.  And really... few Gamist players want their challenges separate from interesting scenery, and few Sim players want scenery separate from interesting conflicts.  You get a lot of convergent behavior.

I had actually fallen into doing this subconsciously because of groups with just the kind of split you describe.  I realized just how much Gamist stuff I'd incorporated while reading my game outlines for scenarios.  I detailed the Gamist stuff (because you have to have a measured, reasonable challenge) but left the Sim stuff largely to ad-libbing with only a few notes jotted down for reminders.  So when I read through many of my old stuff, it read very Gamist (certainly more than I remember it being in play) for that very reason.

Now, mind you, this advice may not work with every group of Sim/Gam players since mode preferences can very significantly even within one mode.  And, don't forget that just because someone has a Sim or Gam preference doesn't mean they can't play in and enjoy other modes too.  They key thing is learning to negotiate when conflicts between modes arises.

Edit: Just a quick addition.  It's generally important to make sure you congratulate the different players on the things they do.  "Good strategy there with the canyons." "Ah, I hadn't thought about that aspect of their culture that way... good job."  Many Sim GMs wind up rewarding Gamist behavior (either via systems like D&D that seem built to do it or because its easier to define a Gamist victory than a Sim one).  If you reward one thing more than another, you'll tend to discourage the one that's not being rewarded.

[Ron Edwards]

Hiya,

This discussion should continue in its mirror thread in Actual Play, so let's close this one up.

Best,
Ron