Evasion - Partial Evasion question

[Melkor]

On P.84 of the rulebook, it states on table 4.4 that a Partial Evasion (TN 7) allows you to take the Initiative in the next Exchange by paying 2 CP dice, or if the opponent fumbles or fails completely.

I was under the impression based on the description of the Exchange of Blows on P.76 (right-hand column) and P.77 (left-hand colum) that the attacker rolled his attack CP and the defender rolled his defense CP and the winner of that roll could choose to press the advantage by "taking" or "keeping" the advantage.

If that is the case, what is the advantage of choosing to take a Partial Evasion instead of, say Parrying or Blocking, unless you were completely unarmed and had no other choice ?

The way it is written, it seems like a successful Block or Parry would allow you to take the advantage because you won the roll, While with a Partial Evasion, you would have to win the roll and pay 2CP to gain the advantage for the second exchange - unless your opponent completely failed - i.e. - rolled no successes, or botched his roll....In which case you wouldn't be forced to pay the 2 CP cost....

Any clarification on this ?

Thanks!

[Salamander]

On P.84 of the rulebook, it states on table 4.4 that a Partial Evasion (TN 7) allows you to take the Initiative in the next Exchange by paying 2 CP dice, or if the opponent fumbles or fails completely.

That is correct. Basically you have to succeed in your partial evasion, then you can head right back in and zap him. Basically known as voiding, one can use it to step or leap back a hint (just out of his reach) and then when the other guy is recovering, you bust his melon open (figuratively).

I was under the impression based on the description of the Exchange of Blows on P.76 (right-hand column) and P.77 (left-hand colum) that the attacker rolled his attack CP and the defender rolled his defense CP and the winner of that roll could choose to press the advantage by "taking" or "keeping" the advantage.

Also known as initiative, but yeah. The partial evasion thing is just one more way to do it, but first you have to successfully evade, the option don't amount to a pile of beans if the other guy clocked you.

If that is the case, what is the advantage of choosing to take a Partial Evasion instead of, say Parrying or Blocking, unless you were completely unarmed and had no other choice ?

Well, it does have its place. I have used this trick a few times in real life during sparring to good effect. Basically it allows you to get your own back and steal the intiative, but it does cost 2 CP and is easily dealt with using a counter or an evasion of your own!

The way it is written, it seems like a successful Block or Parry would allow you to take the advantage because you won the roll, While with a Partial Evasion, you would have to win the roll and pay 2CP to gain the advantage for the second exchange - unless your opponent completely failed - i.e. - rolled no successes, or botched his roll....In which case you wouldn't be forced to pay the 2 CP cost....

Any clarification on this ?

Thanks!

The above is all correct as far as I know. As I said before, the partial evasion can set you up to take the initiative in such a fashion as to minimize your risk of harm... theoretically... :)

[Brian Leybourne]

What Salamander said, basically. Evasions break the usual "defense maneuver" rules, because normally, the defender gets initiative if he wins the exchange, but evasions are different: Full Evasion breaks the round so nobody has initiative, Duck & Weave gives initiative to the defender, and Partial gives initiative to the attacker unless the defender pays that cost.

Why would you ever use it? Well, the DTN is 7, and that's substantially lower than the DTN's of some weapons :-)

Brian.

[Melkor]

Thanks.....As always, you have answered my questions.

I was thinking to myself - "Why would anyone choose a Partial Evasion defense if they had a weapon - because taking advantage would cost them CP, whereas, if they Parry or Block, taking advantage is FREE."

I failed to notice that the DTN of 7 for Partial Evasion was lower than that of some weapons....In that case, chance of success would be worth more than those extra dice in your CP for the next exchange.....Can't rightly attack your opponent if you get whacked, fail to parry or block with your high DTN weapon, and die in the process. Better to take the 2 CP penalty and better your chances of defending.

Cheers.

[Mokkurkalfe]

And don't forget that sometimes you can't use your weapon. For example, if your weapon has been caught by a Bind maneuver so you can't parry, but you want to stay at Short range to avoid his longsword, a partial evasion might be a good idea. Especially since you can just ignore the Initiative cost and stay on the defensive until you can parry again.
Every maneuver has it's use...

[Poleaxe]

Follow-up question.  So a partial evasion breaks you out of a Bind manuever, huh?  Didn't realize that.  I figured a full evasion definitely, but wasn't sure about the others.

Does a duck n weave also free you from a Bind manuever?

Thanks,

Alan

[Ingenious]

I tell you why I would use a partial evasion. !. My weapon(for my newest character), is a pole-axe. DTN of 7.. same as partial evasion. However, since I have acrobatics.. I can roll that to get additional dice that I would normally have to keep towards either an attack or a defense. So it boosts my combat ability drastically. Say I put 10 of my 12 dice into an attack.. but fail to gain margin of success, that would leave me with 2 dice for a defensive move. I couldnt do full evade because I attacked the previous exchange.. so my options would be limited to moves that have the same DTN as my weapon or higher. Hope this clarifies why it would be a good idea. Or maybe I had a flail.. with a DTN of 15.. or a warflail so that the DTN is close to that, and I wouldnt have a shield either..

In my mind's eye, I don't think a full evasion should not be able to free you from a bind, but it should prevent it. A full evasion to me is putting distance between yourself and your opponent.. enough to where his attack would not hit any part of you at all. Thus, after a successful full evasion.. initiative is rolled again. (not going from the book with that one)

The options I see for getting out of a bind are grappling moves, wrestling, punching, etc. A bind essentially takes away the use of a limb for a second or two.. and it's like having a vice grip on it. Try moving out of one sometime. Or if the binded arm had your weapon in it, and you had a shield in the off-hand.. bash the guy in the face with it before he does a pommel strike or hit the binded area.
The duck n weave is more like a boxer, ducking.. and evading a punch. If a boxer had an arm in a bind.. it makes it very hard to duck or weave. So I see no reason why a duck and weave should take you out of a bind.

However, binds normally are not held for more than a very short time.. as not only does it take away your appendage from being used to say, attack.. or a shield to defend.. but it also takes your opponent's arm out of the picture..

Other than that *shrug* as for the book, it's in my truck. Too lazy to check it.
-Ingenious

[Brian Leybourne]

Follow-up question.  So a partial evasion breaks you out of a Bind manuever, huh?  Didn't realize that.  I figured a full evasion definitely, but wasn't sure about the others.

Does a duck n weave also free you from a Bind manuever?

Not specifically, but they're valid defenses against the strike part of that maneuver.

Brian.