[Timestream] Damage Mechanic Problem

[Nathan P.]

Hey all

I'm finishing the first draft of my time-travel game, Timestream, and I'm running into a problem with a damage mechanic. Right now, here's how combat works:

General dice rolling mechanic: Roll a number of dice equal to an Attribute (i.e. Physical, range of 1-6) with a modifier according to the relevant Arena score (i.e. Brawling, range -6 to +6). All rolls are resisted by an appropriate roll from another character or the GM. Higher total wins.

Combat:
1. Attacker declares their attack (a punch, swordswing, pistol shot, whatever)
2. Defender declares their defense, if any (dodge, block, parry, etc.)
3. Both make a roll on their given [Attribute] Arena. If defender wins, the attack fails. If attacker wins, go to the next step.
4. Roll the weapons damage (weapons do between 1 and 6) against the defenders [Physical] Might score. Armor adds to the dice rolled by the defender.

Here's where I'm stuck. I can't decide if I want:
A. If the attacker wins, the total rolled is applied as damage.
B. The difference between the two rolls is applied as damage, with a minimum of the minimum damage that can be done by that weapon (i.e. a 2-dice weapon does minimum 2 damage).
C. Something else entirely, which may involve retooling how combat works.

I feel like option A may be too deadly, while option B may be not deadly enough, and I'm really torn. Opinions, analysis and requests for clarification are all welcome.

Thank you for your time,
Nathan P.

[talysman]

maybe split the difference between A and B?

if the difference between the two rolls hits a certain threshold, the victim takes full damage. you already have one such threshold: if the difference is more than zero in the attacker's favor, the victim takes (some) damage.

now, the question is: how high should the second threshold be? and should you have full damage at the second threshold and the difference between rolls as damage below that threshold, or should you swap them?

if you go with the first way, it's effectively a critical hit system. highly mismatched fights will wind up with one character quickly killing the other. if they are closely matched, however, it seems like the fights become more drawn out as they wear each other down.

if you go the second way, close matches will consist of ineffective exchanges interrupted by sudden massive, potentially fatal, damage. highly mismatched fights will will result in the superior opponent whittling the weaker down to size over a period of time.

for comparison with those two options: if you go with straight A, it will be ineffective exchanges interrupted by sudden death for all fights. if you use straight B, it will be drawn-out whittling for all fights, but mismatches will result in the weaker opponent going into a death spiral, with the stronger opponent taking minimal damage.

[Andrew Martin]

I'm finishing the first draft of my time-travel game, Timestream, and I'm running into a problem with a damage mechanic.
...
Opinions, analysis and requests for clarification are all welcome.

Why is combat and damage important to your time-travel game? Why is damage in combat more important than simply going back in time and, say, killing one's foe as a baby?

[Nathan P.]

Why is combat and damage important to your time-travel game?

Three reasons:

1. I'm in the going-back-and-filling-in-holes phase, and a damage system is one of those holes. Incidentally, I'm playing off of Talysman's advice and looking at some middle options.

2. Some characters can influence time on a large scale (actual time travel), while others do so on a local scale (I call it Temporal Manipulation). For the second kind of character, Traveling away from a fight isn't an option (though they can go through a fight multiple times, making it different each time, or pause time for a bit and run away, or other fun things). Also, Travel is resource-based, and sometimes may not be available.

3. In the bigger picture, much of what makes history is violence. It's not a simple question of killing an opponent before the fight begins (though that is definitely an option). What if a character wants to fight in the crusades? Or try to kill Hitler? Or if he's kidnapped by a rival while exhaused and unable to Travel? The game has a fairly strong Gamist element, as I understand the term, and is built on a fortune mechanic, which makes me hesitant to abstract combat and conflict resolution to a greater degree than any other element of the mechanics.

That said, combat isn't a very important part of the game. It's mechanics take up about half a page right now, while the important stuff is about 20 times that. I do want it to be an option, however, and as internally consistent as possible, which is where I'm running into problems...

Thank you for your time,
Nathan P.

Gah. Edited cuz I can't type.

[Alex Johnson]

Let's my guide you to some parts of your post (lots of editing):

Roll a number of dice equal to an Attribute (i.e. Physical, range of 1-6) with a modifier according to the relevant Arena score (i.e. Brawling, range -6 to +6).

3. Both make a roll on their given [Attribute] Arena. If defender wins, the attack fails. If attacker wins, go to the next step.
4. Roll the weapons damage (weapons do between 1 and 6) against the defenders [Physical] Might score. Armor adds to the dice rolled by the defender.

It looks like you have a dice-pool mechanic in mind.  If you want to know how deadly that will be, run some statistics (manual trials with dice are rewarding, but a computer program or a pen and paper math equation will also do the trick).  It sounds like attributes can be 1-6, and the attack/defence roll will be up to an attribute TIMES a die (I'm guessing d6).

So consider:
...a strong attacker...
Attack of 6D + 6 (modifier for Arena).  Attack roll can be up to 42 with an average of 27.  Against low defender ability (1-6 from 1D) yields success by 6-41 points (24 on average).

...an average attacker...
Attack of 3D (no modifier).  Attack roll can be up to 18 with an average of 10.  Against low defender ability yields success by up to 17 or failure by -3 (usually success, 7 on average).

...a weak attacker...
Attack of 1D (no modifier).  Attack roll can be up to 6 with an average of 3.  Against an equal defender ability yields equal chances of success and failure (degree up to +/-5).

If you roll dice for damage (1-6 as you indicate) you will be getting large numbers, even when opposed by the defender's attribute roll.  So how are you handling injury?  Is it something like hit points (D&D) where you get a bunch of them?  Is it by ability damage where wounds reduce your ability scores?  This will be deadly due to the range of numbers (and the fact that your scores only range from 1-6).  Is it by some abstract wound system (Star Wars) where you take a fixed number of wounds and then die?  

Decide how you envision a fight going and then try to find the system that best fits the descriptions in your mental picture.

[Nathan P.]

Yeh, I've been making the dice dance about this, and they're not telling me what I want to hear...

I was handling injury by having a pool of health in different locations (arm, body, leg, etc), with damage subtracting from that pool. I can't find a good number for the amount of health that will work the way I want.

I like how things work up until the damage resolution step. I like the fact that a highly superior fighter will cream an inferior opponent, while two matched opponents will have more of an elongated duel.

Right now, I think I'm going to scrap a point system for health and do something like each level of damage subtracts a dice from the victims rolls, with 0 dice indicating unconciousness or death. Big burly fighters can take more hits than skinny dudes before falling down, and this would also eliminate a set of numbers to keep track of.

Thank you for your time,
Nathan P.